Got a general request here. This match was at the Ivan Yarygin Tournament. Yarygin was awesome when he was competing - I know because I saw him take a US 2x NCAA champ and toss him around like a baby. He pinned everyone at the 1972 Olympics and only spent 7 1/2 minutes on the mat. So, does anyone have footage of him when he was at his prime?
FYI - for those who aren't familiar with Russian wrestling history, Yarygin was killed in a car accident in 1997. That was a terrible tragedy for wrestling no matter where you live. He was one of the best.
ReAlitT said: “"I guess he lost some muscle mass when he retired and/or stopped taking his "vitamins..."
Craig, thanks for the video. On another note, most in the know understand what you mean when you say "stop taking his vitamins" something always rumored about the soviets. However, it could easily be rumored about USA wrestlers if your logic is followed.
For example, can you explain how Mike Za had to cut weight to make 149 in college and yet wrestles 132 internationally? That is a whopping 17lbs less than what he was cutting weight to make in college! Easily more weight than the larger Khadartsev cut(90kg-85kg=5kg/.454=11lbs). Sooo.....the bigger guy cuts 11lbs and is rumored to be on "vitamins" while the smaller man cuts twice that (assuming Za lost at least 5lbs to make 149 in college, or 22lbs) and is not accused of any wrong doing?
Me thinks you should rethink comments like this.”
I'll respond to this now.
I think the Za example is a bad one. If Mike Z had been 31 or so wrestling 149, retired, and then came back 4 years later looking noticeably smaller and wrestling at 132, I think some would be scratching their heads. But that's not the case. The reality is that he was a 149 lber in college (maybe he couldn't beat Doug Schwab and had to move up, I don't know) and now cuts an insane amount of weight to make 132 so that he could make a World Team (which he has done a few times) as he is too small for 145.5. He would have been better with the old weight of 136.5. But I digress.
My comment wasn't a Soviet thing, as we all know Americans have used steroids too. And Germans. And Canadians. And Turks. Etc., etc. It was more a comment about the light heavyweight class.
The deal is that steroid use comes into question when you see either 198 lbers that didn't cut a lot of weight and were successful or the wrestler who had competed at 198 and did ok but then suddenly moved up to 220 and had a lot of success.
Regarding steroid use, if we have learned anything from Major League Baseball, I think we should all be smart from this day forward and just assume that all competitors in our sport across all nations has used or currently uses some type of performance enhancing drugs. There is an old saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." I could have used "We won't get fooled again." by The Who but I have never been a big The Who fan. I mean they're OK but some of their later albums...sorry, getting off track here. Peace, out.
"I guess he lost some muscle mass when he retired and/or stopped taking his "vitamins..."
Craig, thanks for the video. On another note, most in the know understand what you mean when you say "stop taking his vitamins" something always rumored about the soviets. However, it could easily be rumored about USA wrestlers if your logic is followed.
For example, can you explain how Mike Za had to cut weight to make 149 in college and yet wrestles 132 internationally? That is a whopping 17lbs less than what he was cutting weight to make in college! Easily more weight than the larger Khadartsev cut(90kg-85kg=5kg/.454=11lbs). Sooo.....the bigger guy cuts 11lbs and is rumored to be on "vitamins" while the smaller man cuts twice that (assuming Za lost at least 5lbs to make 149 in college, or 22lbs) and is not accused of any wrong doing?
Me thinks you should rethink comments like this.
BTW this Yargin tournament might have been the deepest weight at any tournament, ever... counting # of world/olympic titles:
Khadharsev - a whole bunch... 7 maybe?
Saitiev - 3
Sajidov - 2
Magomedov - 2
And that's assuming Gatsalov was too young to participate at that time, and that there weren't any non-Russian world champs in the mix.
I remember that match too, Scherr pancaked him for the win nearly at the buzzer if memory serves me correctly and then the vision of Scherr pumping his fists in the air was AWESOME! I believe John Smith may have lost on that day to Stepan Sarkisian of the former Soviet Union.
Craig, thanks for the great videos. Do you have any training/practice footage. Particularly youth practices. I would be really interested in learning how other countries get their young wrestlers started.
Dave said: “I'm new to freestyle. Can someone explain how the winner was determined? They were tied 2-2 and suddenly Saitiev's hand is being raised. Is it because he scored first?”
Not sure. Want to say it had to do with having less passivity calls. Same way Townsend Saunders lost in 1996.
When I was i high school I saw bill sheer beat kadartzev at the world cup in toledo, at the time he was undefeated for 10 years, great match, this was in the late 80"s. find that match
I believe during that era it went to a referee's decision after a tie, but I'd also like to know the criteria. That's about as even as a match can get.
BTW Dave in today's freestyle there's a whole bunch of tiebreak rules, the most common being "last point scored"/
I'm new to freestyle. Can someone explain how the winner was determined? They were tied 2-2 and suddenly Saitiev's hand is being raised. Is it because he scored first?
OK I'm convinced, Adam Saitiev does not have a leg attack, or at least doesn't like to use one. He fakes that snatch single to set up his shuck, but he's certainly not looking to go to his knees. Not that there's anything wrong with that. There's certainly something to be learned by his style and success with it. I'm curious what, if anything, you like to teach about Adam Saitiev qs.
well that's true. And the funny part is they have completely different styles, in contrast to other brothers a la the Brands, Steiners, Banachs, Smiths, etc. all wrestled similar to their brother.
Hey Craig, Thanks for all of the great world-class action. I way prefer it over any other form of wrestling. There is so much more style clashes which makes for interesting action. In response to talking about Saitiev : I'm sure going at it with the greatest wrestler ever since he was a baby, couldn't have hurt his confidence.
I love that this broadcast has the score in the upper corner, so you don't have to rely on the cameraman to get you a look. This would be a good phone booth match. Phone booth refers to Bill and Ted's time machine. When my athletes get y, I always tell them I'll be waiting in the phonebooth. Khadartsev looks like he slowed quite a bit from his earlier from, obviously. He is 36!
First I need to thank my Bulgarian friend for bringing this match to my attention as well as providing additional information.
This week I am choosing the 85 kg Gold medal match at the 2000 Yarygin featuring Adam Saitiev and Makharbek Khadartsev.
This is a dream match up. I wasn't even aware it took place until a few weeks ago.
Again we see a clear contrast in styles as Saitiev is wide open and Khadartsev is conservative. As I've pointed out, it's interesting to see how Saitiev (or insert name of any great wrestler) works the same style against different opponents. He does the same exact thing in every match and is extremely successful. Just goes to show that you should stick with what you know and makes you successful and perfect it so that you can hit it on anyone. Of course being an awesome athlete like Saitiev doesn't hurt either ;) But in all honesty, it's all about confidence. And that comes with drilling and perfecting your technique.
So enjoy this match, because it is a great one.
A few notes:
Khadartsev had retired after earning a silver medal in Atlanta 1996. In 2000, at 36 years old, he decided to make a come back in an attempt to make his 4th Olympic Team and win his 3rd Olympic gold in Sydney.
This match would decide who would represent Russia at the Olympics. Following the loss, Khadartsev went and competed for Uzbekistan in Sydney. He placed 14th.
How Khadartsev was able to make 85 kg I'll never know. I guess he wasn't cutting much to make 90 kg. But man he was huge at 90 kg. His legs looked real small here. I guess he lost some muscle mass when he retired and/or stopped taking his "vitamins..."
FYI - for those who aren't familiar with Russian wrestling history, Yarygin was killed in a car accident in 1997. That was a terrible tragedy for wrestling no matter where you live. He was one of the best.
“"I guess he lost some muscle mass when he retired and/or stopped taking his "vitamins..."
Craig, thanks for the video. On another note, most in the know understand what you mean when you say "stop taking his vitamins" something always rumored about the soviets. However, it could easily be rumored about USA wrestlers if your logic is followed.
For example, can you explain how Mike Za had to cut weight to make 149 in college and yet wrestles 132 internationally? That is a whopping 17lbs less than what he was cutting weight to make in college! Easily more weight than the larger Khadartsev cut(90kg-85kg=5kg/.454=11lbs). Sooo.....the bigger guy cuts 11lbs and is rumored to be on "vitamins" while the smaller man cuts twice that (assuming Za lost at least 5lbs to make 149 in college, or 22lbs) and is not accused of any wrong doing?
Me thinks you should rethink comments like this.”
I think the Za example is a bad one. If Mike Z had been 31 or so wrestling 149, retired, and then came back 4 years later looking noticeably smaller and wrestling at 132, I think some would be scratching their heads. But that's not the case. The reality is that he was a 149 lber in college (maybe he couldn't beat Doug Schwab and had to move up, I don't know) and now cuts an insane amount of weight to make 132 so that he could make a World Team (which he has done a few times) as he is too small for 145.5. He would have been better with the old weight of 136.5. But I digress.
My comment wasn't a Soviet thing, as we all know Americans have used steroids too. And Germans. And Canadians. And Turks. Etc., etc. It was more a comment about the light heavyweight class.
The deal is that steroid use comes into question when you see either 198 lbers that didn't cut a lot of weight and were successful or the wrestler who had competed at 198 and did ok but then suddenly moved up to 220 and had a lot of success.
Previous post should say Mike Za
Craig, thanks for the video. On another note, most in the know understand what you mean when you say "stop taking his vitamins" something always rumored about the soviets. However, it could easily be rumored about USA wrestlers if your logic is followed.
For example, can you explain how Mike Za had to cut weight to make 149 in college and yet wrestles 132 internationally? That is a whopping 17lbs less than what he was cutting weight to make in college! Easily more weight than the larger Khadartsev cut(90kg-85kg=5kg/.454=11lbs). Sooo.....the bigger guy cuts 11lbs and is rumored to be on "vitamins" while the smaller man cuts twice that (assuming Za lost at least 5lbs to make 149 in college, or 22lbs) and is not accused of any wrong doing?
Me thinks you should rethink comments like this.
BTW this Yargin tournament might have been the deepest weight at any tournament, ever... counting # of world/olympic titles:
Khadharsev - a whole bunch... 7 maybe?
Saitiev - 3
Sajidov - 2
Magomedov - 2
And that's assuming Gatsalov was too young to participate at that time, and that there weren't any non-Russian world champs in the mix.
“I'm new to freestyle. Can someone explain how the winner was determined? They were tied 2-2 and suddenly Saitiev's hand is being raised. Is it because he scored first?”
BTW Dave in today's freestyle there's a whole bunch of tiebreak rules, the most common being "last point scored"/
This week I am choosing the 85 kg Gold medal match at the 2000 Yarygin featuring Adam Saitiev and Makharbek Khadartsev.
This is a dream match up. I wasn't even aware it took place until a few weeks ago.
Again we see a clear contrast in styles as Saitiev is wide open and Khadartsev is conservative. As I've pointed out, it's interesting to see how Saitiev (or insert name of any great wrestler) works the same style against different opponents. He does the same exact thing in every match and is extremely successful. Just goes to show that you should stick with what you know and makes you successful and perfect it so that you can hit it on anyone. Of course being an awesome athlete like Saitiev doesn't hurt either ;) But in all honesty, it's all about confidence. And that comes with drilling and perfecting your technique.
So enjoy this match, because it is a great one.
A few notes:
Khadartsev had retired after earning a silver medal in Atlanta 1996. In 2000, at 36 years old, he decided to make a come back in an attempt to make his 4th Olympic Team and win his 3rd Olympic gold in Sydney.
This match would decide who would represent Russia at the Olympics. Following the loss, Khadartsev went and competed for Uzbekistan in Sydney. He placed 14th.
Semi finals for this Yarygin:
Adam Saitiev dec. Sazhid Sazhidov 1:1, overtime, ref. dec.
Makharbek Khadartsev dec. Khajimurad Magomedov (1996 Olympic & 2001 World champion) 4:0
Bronze medal: Khajimurad Magomedov dec. Sazhid Sazhidov 2:2, ot, ref. dec.
How Khadartsev was able to make 85 kg I'll never know. I guess he wasn't cutting much to make 90 kg. But man he was huge at 90 kg. His legs looked real small here. I guess he lost some muscle mass when he retired and/or stopped taking his "vitamins..."