Today, I think we got 197lb'rs that can wrestle like this easily. Only thing is, it takes two to tango. More often than not we get a Varner or a Brester snoozefest. That is the officials fault. There is no doubt in my mind someone like Hudson Taylor could roll like this, but not against a 100% staller like Varner or Brester. If Either one of these guys(Banach/Mann) took a defensive approach this match would look like one from today.
The problem is not with the wrestlers, it is with the officiating. The refs let the stalling happen. Otherwise we would have exciting bouts just like this, regularly... Refs need to grow a set.
Also, I wouldnt put money on this being the "Norm" even for back then. Im am confident it is more like the "Exception" for 190lb'rs of any era.
dave said: “It that Nate Carr in the background cheering on Mann? The enthusiasm is contagious. How do we re-kindle this energy in today's sport?”
You bet, that is Nate Carr and he was one of those highly energetic cheerleader type wrestlers in his day, great for the sport! These past days are gone in that dual meets ruled all levels of wrestling and tournaments were few and far between. Therefore, rivalries flourished along with team spirit on both sides. The entire week leading up to these huge duals week in and week out was intense. Unfortunately, in my opinion, much of the luster of dual meets is gone due to the year round tournaments and the excitement has been diluted greatly as most lay people do not enjoy sitting for 10 hours a day over 2-3 days in uncomfortable bleacher seats at tournaments. If you want to see the house literally come down, you must get a hold of the Lou Banach/Dave Osenbaugh match. You will have chills when that match ends, wow! I commend Banach for being on eof the greatest team players in wrestling history. The man put his #1 ranking on the line by not just trying to win the match against an opponent who outweighed him by nearly 50 pounds, but he tried to pin him at all cost in order to garner the team victory for the Hawkeyes. In trying to pin him and up by 10, Banach put himeself in trouble one too many times, here's how they called it and to date, I have never seen a more insane celebration in my entire life in wrestling:
>>
Russ Hodges’ home run call is one of the most famous in all of American sports history – so famous that the home run is often called the “shot heard ‘round the world”.
In 1981, in a dual wrestling meet, Iowa Public Television’s Doug Brown made a call that might be called the “pin heard ‘round Iowa” - “Osenbaugh has Banach in trouble! Banach is in trouble”. Up to that point Iowa State was winning the dual, but a pin by Iowa heavyweight, Lou Banach, would snatch the victory for the number-one-ranked Hawkeyes. For two periods Banach, outweighed by 40 – 50 pounds, dominated the match. At the start of the third period he was up 10 - 0 and had almost four minutes of riding time – most of which was earned by trying arm bars and cradles to get Cyclone heavyweight, Dave Osenbaugh, on his back. Then – suddenly – Osenbaugh turned Banach and held on for the pin. The ensuing celebration was one of the greatest in Cyclone history.
I never reqalized how sloppy a wrestler Banach was. At least in this match. He was so dominant in his day but I think guys couldn't keep up with his intensity and he overpowered guys. Mann's technique was fabulous. But Banach won the NCAA's that year right??
you just dont see that kind of action anymore... we praise guys like varner and the boring group at 165... but this kind of wrestling is where its at.. also, check out the other throwback match with gonzalez and mills... the pace was soo hectic! i long for the good ol' days...
Craig Vitagliano said: “I think you're actually agreeing with TJ here Matt. He's just commenting on the many people who think today's wrestling is head and shoulders better than it was 20 years ago. This match alone disproves that.
I remember a post on themat.com 6 years ago comparing the 2003 champs to the 1983 champs and some people actually thought the 2003 team would have wiped the 1983 team. Some actually claimed that Larkin would have pinned Nate Carr and Thompson would have beaten Barry Davis. Of course the next year the very same people were crying over how horrible the wrestling was despite many of the 2003 champs getting upset, but I digress.
I will agree though, good wrestling is good wrestling no matter when it was.”
Craig Vitagliano said: “I think you're actually agreeing with TJ here Matt. He's just commenting on the many people who think today's wrestling is head and shoulders better than it was 20 years ago. This match alone disproves that.
I remember a post on themat.com 6 years ago comparing the 2003 champs to the 1983 champs and some people actually thought the 2003 team would have wiped the 1983 team. Some actually claimed that Larkin would have pinned Nate Carr and Thompson would have beaten Barry Davis. Of course the next year the very same people were crying over how horrible the wrestling was despite many of the 2003 champs getting upset, but I digress.
I will agree though, good wrestling is good wrestling no matter when it was.”
Thanks Guru, I couldn't have said it any better. Matt and I are obviously in total agreement in that good wrestling is good wrestling in any era. Funny story too about the mat.com article, I hear that stuff all the time (and it drives me crazy)! What an exciting match between Banach and Mann and I can only imagine the hype that week leading up to this great rivalry so many years ago between these two highly ranked wrestlers. I am so impressed with the relentless offenses of both athletes with the mindset on point scoring. I enjoy these matches more when I am watching them the second and third time around!
If memory serves me correctly, this may have been the dual meet when Nate Carr moved up to 158 to challenge Jim Zaleski but I coud be wrong. Gutsy move but man, did that backfire!
I cannot say Thank You enough to Flo for Throwback Thursdays and to the respected Guru for posting the Match of the Weeks. Great stuff!
matt R said: “i respectfully disagree even though i did my competing in the 80's. i think good wrestling is good wrestling and is doesn't matter if it was in 1983 or 2009.
look at jordan burroughs, jordan leen, caldwell, metcalfe, etc, etc.”
I think you're actually agreeing with TJ here Matt. He's just commenting on the many people who think today's wrestling is head and shoulders better than it was 20 years ago. This match alone disproves that.
I remember a post on themat.com 6 years ago comparing the 2003 champs to the 1983 champs and some people actually thought the 2003 team would have wiped the 1983 team. Some actually claimed that Larkin would have pinned Nate Carr and Thompson would have beaten Barry Davis. Of course the next year the very same people were crying over how horrible the wrestling was despite many of the 2003 champs getting upset, but I digress.
I will agree though, good wrestling is good wrestling no matter when it was.
Look at the refs, the one is wearing jeans! hahaha did they get these guys out of the crowd? Did a great job, but crazy. Best wrestling 80's - 97. Things changed after that.
TJ X said: “Nobody will ever tell me that wrestling today is better than the "old days." These guys were trained to not only SCORE POINTS but also to do it in a crowd pleasing fashion! I have this match on the IPTV VCR tape and have watched it a dozen times over the years. I still marvel at how these 190 pounders attacked and moved as if they were 126 poundders. Simply AWESOME! Collegiate wrestling at its BEST!”
i respectfully disagree even though i did my competing in the 80's. i think good wrestling is good wrestling and is doesn't matter if it was in 1983 or 2009.
look at jordan burroughs, jordan leen, caldwell, metcalfe, etc, etc.
Our society keeps going down, just turn on the TV... And I don't mean our economy either. Kids have a different perspective today as do many adults, obviously. Wrestling in its purity can help, if they will let it. Dan Gable said it best a few years ago "america need wrestling"
those guys move like 40 pounders. love the gramby action for big boys.
Very tough both of them .. I wonder what they weigh now... moving as hard as those guys wrestled will take it out quick at that weight. I ave to wach this over again and again
The USA had the best wrestlers in the world in the 80's, I don't know if we will ever produce those type of athletes again. If we do it will bring wrestling back.
Nobody will ever tell me that wrestling today is better than the "old days." These guys were trained to not only SCORE POINTS but also to do it in a crowd pleasing fashion! I have this match on the IPTV VCR tape and have watched it a dozen times over the years. I still marvel at how these 190 pounders attacked and moved as if they were 126 poundders. Simply AWESOME! Collegiate wrestling at its BEST!
190lbs Ed Banach vs. Mike Mann - 1983 ISU vs. Iowa Dual
1983 Iowa State vs. Iowa Dual at Iowa State - A classic rivalry between Iowa's 190lbs Ed Banach eventual 1984 Olympic Gold Medalist and Mike Mann eventual 3X All American. Both men were runner ups in 1982. Great war between two big guys. May 13, 2009 Level: college Weight Class: 190
190lbs Ed Banach vs. Mike Mann - 1983 ISU vs. Iowa Dual
The problem is not with the wrestlers, it is with the officiating. The refs let the stalling happen. Otherwise we would have exciting bouts just like this, regularly... Refs need to grow a set.
Also, I wouldnt put money on this being the "Norm" even for back then. Im am confident it is more like the "Exception" for 190lb'rs of any era.
“It that Nate Carr in the background cheering on Mann? The enthusiasm is contagious. How do we re-kindle this energy in today's sport?”
>>
Russ Hodges’ home run call is one of the most famous in all of American sports history – so famous that the home run is often called the “shot heard ‘round the world”.
In 1981, in a dual wrestling meet, Iowa Public Television’s Doug Brown made a call that might be called the “pin heard ‘round Iowa” - “Osenbaugh has Banach in trouble! Banach is in trouble”. Up to that point Iowa State was winning the dual, but a pin by Iowa heavyweight, Lou Banach, would snatch the victory for the number-one-ranked Hawkeyes. For two periods Banach, outweighed by 40 – 50 pounds, dominated the match. At the start of the third period he was up 10 - 0 and had almost four minutes of riding time – most of which was earned by trying arm bars and cradles to get Cyclone heavyweight, Dave Osenbaugh, on his back. Then – suddenly – Osenbaugh turned Banach and held on for the pin. The ensuing celebration was one of the greatest in Cyclone history.
“I think you're actually agreeing with TJ here Matt. He's just commenting on the many people who think today's wrestling is head and shoulders better than it was 20 years ago. This match alone disproves that.
I remember a post on themat.com 6 years ago comparing the 2003 champs to the 1983 champs and some people actually thought the 2003 team would have wiped the 1983 team. Some actually claimed that Larkin would have pinned Nate Carr and Thompson would have beaten Barry Davis. Of course the next year the very same people were crying over how horrible the wrestling was despite many of the 2003 champs getting upset, but I digress.
I will agree though, good wrestling is good wrestling no matter when it was.”
more beloglazov please.
“I think you're actually agreeing with TJ here Matt. He's just commenting on the many people who think today's wrestling is head and shoulders better than it was 20 years ago. This match alone disproves that.
I remember a post on themat.com 6 years ago comparing the 2003 champs to the 1983 champs and some people actually thought the 2003 team would have wiped the 1983 team. Some actually claimed that Larkin would have pinned Nate Carr and Thompson would have beaten Barry Davis. Of course the next year the very same people were crying over how horrible the wrestling was despite many of the 2003 champs getting upset, but I digress.
I will agree though, good wrestling is good wrestling no matter when it was.”
If memory serves me correctly, this may have been the dual meet when Nate Carr moved up to 158 to challenge Jim Zaleski but I coud be wrong. Gutsy move but man, did that backfire!
I cannot say Thank You enough to Flo for Throwback Thursdays and to the respected Guru for posting the Match of the Weeks. Great stuff!
“i respectfully disagree even though i did my competing in the 80's. i think good wrestling is good wrestling and is doesn't matter if it was in 1983 or 2009.
look at jordan burroughs, jordan leen, caldwell, metcalfe, etc, etc.”
I remember a post on themat.com 6 years ago comparing the 2003 champs to the 1983 champs and some people actually thought the 2003 team would have wiped the 1983 team. Some actually claimed that Larkin would have pinned Nate Carr and Thompson would have beaten Barry Davis. Of course the next year the very same people were crying over how horrible the wrestling was despite many of the 2003 champs getting upset, but I digress.
I will agree though, good wrestling is good wrestling no matter when it was.
“Nobody will ever tell me that wrestling today is better than the "old days." These guys were trained to not only SCORE POINTS but also to do it in a crowd pleasing fashion! I have this match on the IPTV VCR tape and have watched it a dozen times over the years. I still marvel at how these 190 pounders attacked and moved as if they were 126 poundders. Simply AWESOME! Collegiate wrestling at its BEST!”
look at jordan burroughs, jordan leen, caldwell, metcalfe, etc, etc.
Very tough both of them .. I wonder what they weigh now... moving as hard as those guys wrestled will take it out quick at that weight. I ave to wach this over again and again
Plus the ref has some sweet shell toe Adidas on.