How do the strong man competitions get on espn or the lumber Jack programming?
I am tired of more of that stuff than wrestling.
Big 10 network has been great.
Flowrestling will revolutionize the sport if they will embrace Martin. He has built quite a organization.
wrestling IS NOT the most exciting sport in the world.. I'm in love with the sport, but I think that wrestling fans are a select few, and they are able to appreciate the nuances the training involved.
Also Martin doesn't understand business. It sucks, but people have to make money, otherwise there's no way to provide anything. We hate espn becasue they are not a charity, and we expect them and USA wrestling to provide all this awesome coverage.
To me, espn is like a drug company. The drugs that you buy at the store cost probably 1/400th of what you pay. But they sell them at that price because people will take what they can get. If you know basic economics, the supply line is vertical.
And Martin is very knowledgeable about this issue. His passion is obvious, and I wish I had it for the sport. Let's just hope he doesn't run for politics, and then next thing you know we are a communist country and the borders have been knocked down. I love flo, but also if you are interviewing with the head of USA wrestling, try and show a little more respect for the organization, no matter what you feel or want to say. Just my thoughts..
Flo helped increase ESPN's ratings. I know we all love Flo and Flo is the greatest but some of these comments are ridicolous. Do we honestly think Martin and his camcorder are actually going to save our sport. Martin has provided a great service for wrestling just like his brother did for track and they are doing in swimming but to make them another knight riding in a white shining horse goes a bit over board.
Lets all suck on the nuts of ESPN...wait I have some dignity. That has done us a lot of good in the past... Oh wait, it hasnt at all. Maybe ratings for ESPN for NCAAs went up because of Flo? Did you ever think of that? I was never involved in a college season as much as I was this year. While you think about that, think about this: USA Wrestling and the leaders of our sport dont have an once of vision and would do everything it could to control 100% of the sport. If that were to happen we would also be effectively dead. Trying to control things is a dying business plan. The only people that control things are the community. Sorry Bender, Jim Scheer and the whole USA Wrestling staff.
I say Martin and Bender wrestle and the winner gets all the wrestling vids they want ! Martin u r revelutionary Thanks for being u ! Martin u da mannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn! Mocco sis is smokin ! eeeeeeeeeeeeeeek I say dat ?
Anonymous Coward said: “If I filmed that match between Graff and Gomez, could I post it on FloWrestling without getting into trouble?”
y Understanding is if people put it up on youtube...no king of repercussion..but if it goes onto Flo...now because Flo is a known :wrestling site..infringements could be a problem and FLO doesn't want to be a part of that..I always said..have people go and get good video and put up on FLO....FLO wants to be more of a professional site so its first class and the viewer gets first class..not UTube...but the catch 22 is they aren't a big business....they could let everyone dump onto FLO and it becomes crappy..or they try to tow the line but hit alot of legal hurdles....I'm positive person thinking it;ll all work out....we need the FLOs as the backbone and absolutley want the ESPN as the "we arrived"....the process like ost has growing pains....what is awesome is the dialogue about this would never be had without a FLO.....and a huge kudos to FLO..the refuse to edit or censor...so we get all sides...
If you do segments of 1 minutes and 30 seconds or less, you can put up anything as a news clip. I'm not the authority but it was the rules I had to play by when it came to media that was owned/controlled by ESPN.
Lots of times corporate partners pay for the sponsorhip rights which is tied to the the TV. Sponsors will not pay the same amount of money for an event that is not going to be telivised even if it is a few weeks later.
FYI: USA Wrestling pays ESPN 10s of thousands of dollars to put the open on ESPNU...not the other way around. Now how f'ed up is that? USA Wrestling takes from the athletes to broadcast an even a month later. Wrestling is getting screwed
Ok. I ill agree with you that if LSV or whoever the USAW broadcast partner is not covering the event they should allow someone else to cover the event. That I can agree with you about. If LSV is not covering the University Nationals then it would make sense to allow Flo, Wreslting 411 or whoever come in and film. My response to you originally was if LSV pays for the rights to the event and is covering it.
Thanks for the civilized and rationalized post in response to my comments.
What should never happen and has repeatedly...Company A has exclusive contract with USA...doesn't cover many of the events..and won't allow any anybody else to cover for free those events so fans can view...how is that good for wrestling, the fans, the wrestlers, or eithewr company....thats the huge thing that hopefully changes...many events are blocked even though they aren't being covered do to the exclusivity in broad general contracts and sponsorhips.....hopefully that can change..
I agree if Company A pays for the rights and covers a-z...awesome for the audience...and nCompany A is doing great...all I think anyone is saying...is use the minor players to have full coverage if it doesn't make sense for the big dog by cost to cover all with back stories....if ESPN covers all rounds and matches...awesome..I don't think it would be cost efeective for them to do that...so if they use a FLO or any other to get it done..thats best senario for all....no one is saying FLO trumps all..what we are saying is let FLO pick up whats not being covered and let them add a true wrestling flavor to non live video that can later be accessed by the fan....from the business end..who knows, thats not what anyone is debated...whats being debated is inclusive access some how....on some terms..right now..the way things work..its 1 game, highest bidder...fans lose out
I am not following how the audience is being shut out. If you paid for the rights for something, why would you want another company to come in and do it for free. Maybe LSV coverage sucked (I did not see it so I cannot answer that) but they paid for the rights to be there and promote their product. Did the fans get shut out if they were filming? At the National Duals, they covered everything up to the finals and then ESPN had the coverage. At major events it is normal to pay for the rights to broadcast/webcast an event.
Martin has this army of followers, I am sure that they could more than cover the rights costs by asking for donations or sponsors.
why would flo be necessary if espn covers the entire event next yr? people need to remember, since espn started covering ncaa's, the coverage went from only the finals being shown, to the semis and finals, to the quarters, medal rounds, semis and finals. who's to say that next year they don't cover it all?
their coverage also included some interesting stories, that they hadn't done in the past.
Its always about the money...Flo doesn't have money to secure rights to these events..and I know because of what we give them as a sponsor....FLO isn't about the money..they want to make a living but they didn't get into this to become rich...again LSV or any other coverage is great..what FLO wants is access for the smaller guy so the audience doesn't get shut out....and the Big guys carrying the Finals will make out....if everyone gets on the same page and understands the others vision and goals..you'll see there are avenues for all...ESPN and FLO are 2 different animals..but could work well in support of each other..as could other major and minor players.....with ESPN as the Big Dog and FLO as the best min or player both now leading the way...the audience should benefit at every event
Are any other sports open? Sorry but it doesn't work like that. If flo wants to cover the events then let them put a bid on them like everyone else does. that is how it is done with all the other sports. what's ridiculous is people thinking if flo gets al the coverage, some how the sport will grow too. this is a wrestling only website that only the wrestling fans use. no one outside of our sport even knows this site exists. i've mentioned this site to fans of other sports and they think its a joke. espn has clout, flo does not, in the whole scheme of things.
btw espn showed the quarters on up to the finals, including the medal rounds, not just the finals.
ESPN coverage has gotten better, and that is good, but to say that it is growing our sport is ridiculous. I do hope that ESPN continues to expand coverage though.
That said, we need some new thinking, if we are to grow. Our biggest events need to be opened up to other broadcasts, like FLO. At the very least, the matches that will not be broadcast by the big players like ESPN.
Basketball and Football aren't huge because ESPN broadcasts their events, ESPN broadcasts their events because they are huge. We need to work on getting huge first, then worry about who to sell the broadcast rights to. Get fans excited, get people to buy in, and then have your choice of media, if that is what we want.
Regardless, if we are never to be main stream sport, OPEN will be better for everyone as we will get to see matches that we otherwise would not, if we are to grow and become main stream, OPEN will get us there by growing the base and broadcasters will want to cover more of our events. win-win
Just to play the devil's advocate here. Do you just limit this to Flo? What about LSV or any of the other media groups that want to film then? I am sure that LSV would be going live at the NCAA tournament if they were allowed too. We will get to a point where we have a ton of cameras around the mat filming at the NCAA's and other premier events. I do not think you can have that either. I am sure ESPN is fully aware of Flo, LSV and these other groups. You have to find the happy medium here. The bottom line is that some of these companies are paying fees to have the rights to these events. That money is then used for good things within USAW. What I do not understand is why Flo does not agree to just pay a fee for the rights to film and have the coverage.
Flo doesn't want to replace ESPN or any big coverage of wrestling..they want to be an added support..having Network and Cable coverage is great..trying to add a FLO as a viable support when the big coverage only carries the Finals if that is the main push..Martin wasn't saying don't keep the big boys..what he was saying is the big boys cover only a small % of the event but lock the small guys out from covering the majority of the event....the HS Nationals allowed coverage of all matches by FLO except the Finals that were covered by ESPN360 live....the D1 Natiionals allowed audio and interviews but not match coverage but only did the Finals...it would have been great to have the prefinal matches to watch if they weren't going to be carried anyway..again...Martin and Flo aren't looking for supremecy in being the only game in town...in fact they want all access for anyone so any audience anywhere can view this great sport.....Having ESPN carry wrestling is awesome..especially the huge Finals...but if we educate the big guys on what the Flos do, they will realize it will benefit them in their cause to generate big viewship during the finals on their Network if they share access to events they don't carry prefinal coverage on....together and inclusive always works....its not the question of Flo or ESPN or Network or other carriers..its about aloowing and including so everyone wins..especially Wrestling and the Fans...and for the record...I'm all about Mushroom Pizza!
I believe that is what all other media outlets do. People are lying if they think the ESPN coverage this year was bad for the sport. It has only gotten better over the last few yrs.
Now USAW coverage on the other hand, has been terrible and needs to expand. But those are two different entities.
So when ESPN has approximately 750,000 viewers (I believe the Nielsen ratings have been around a .48) that is not good for the sport and Flo should have the coverage. We got prime time coverage on ESPN and thats not good enough and you rather Flo have the coverage. Are you serious?
Why doesn't Flo pay a fee to USAW or other groups to provide live coverage of the events? They want the coverage and they are a media outlet then they should pay a fee to have the exclusive coverage of the event. It is not that hard. Pay and you probably can have the exclusive video of the event.
Anonymous Coward said: “I am with you Martin. ESPN and LSV coverage of wrestling events have not grown the sport. I am not saying I do not like the ESPN coverage of the NCAAs, I think it is a great event, but really, how excited can those outside of the sport get at an event where they know nothing about the athletes, and have not been following the season.
Wrestling is getting killed right now, and staying the course will not improve the situation. we need to open up the coverage and events. Live FLO events, or other similar sites, with good commentary, and consistent coverage will help our sport. I was willing to listen to live commentary on FLO, but unwilling to pay ESPN360 to watch the events. How can we grow as a sport when guys who eat, sleep, and breath wrestling are unwilling to pay the ESPNs of the world to watch the sport? This is the hard reality.
Maybe it's time for a big national quality tournament to try open live coverage. Maybe the FLO OPEN? Or OPEN FLO?”
Maybe LSV has done a crappy job of covering events, but in recent yrs, ESPN has been outstanding in the coverage of our sport. That will grow our fan base outside of the wrestling community. That is what is best for our sport and that is what will open the eyes of the AD's we approach when wanting to add or keep programs going.
Keeping our sport only inside our little community is not healthy. ESPN has really started to expand the coverage on TV and online.
And the idea that our coverage should be free is exactly the reason why our sport suffers. Our fans are cheap and simply won't pay to watch our sport, yet every other fans of the major sports do constantly. Thus the reason why they get so much coverage. When our current fans start to open up their pocket books and quick thinking everything in our sport should be free, that's when you'll see some REAL change.
If you really want to make a difference in this sport, go to some live college duals and bring some friends. Donate money to your local college teams, as well. That's what this sport needs more of.
I am with you Martin. ESPN and LSV coverage of wrestling events have not grown the sport. I am not saying I do not like the ESPN coverage of the NCAAs, I think it is a great event, but really, how excited can those outside of the sport get at an event where they know nothing about the athletes, and have not been following the season.
Wrestling is getting killed right now, and staying the course will not improve the situation. we need to open up the coverage and events. Live FLO events, or other similar sites, with good commentary, and consistent coverage will help our sport. I was willing to listen to live commentary on FLO, but unwilling to pay ESPN360 to watch the events. How can we grow as a sport when guys who eat, sleep, and breath wrestling are unwilling to pay the ESPNs of the world to watch the sport? This is the hard reality.
Maybe it's time for a big national quality tournament to try open live coverage. Maybe the FLO OPEN? Or OPEN FLO?
Another Thought said: “Is this about what is best for wrestling or what is best for Flo Wrestling? It seems to me that Flo is really wanting this because it helps Flo wrestling. How much coverage or promotion of any events if Flo is not there? Just asking the questions. I personally like the events being on TV. I want to expand our exposure of our sport out of our own little environment.”
Exactly. People come on here trumpeting Flo as the savior of wrestling. While they offer an amazing tool, their reach beyond this sport is minimal at best. You want exposure, Martin? Run a 30 second ad for a major wrestling event during the Super Bowl or World Series or NCAA basketball finals. Flowrestling reaches beyond the confines of this sport as much as USA Wrestling does, the very people that this site complains about so much.
I'll be honest, I didn't hear much beyond vague redundancies out of Martin's mouth.
The NCAA finals are on ESPNU because the NCAA has a contract for every single one of their sports with ESPN except for those that produce the most money. NCAA wrestling is not the Rose Bowl or the Final Four.
Let's face it folks, America is not a country that loves wrestling and it never will be--ever. Sure, we'd all love to believe in our minds that it can be because we're already convinced, but we're preaching to the choir here. Wrestling is not a money maker in any form of the sport (except for Ken Chertow, maybe) and many Americans equate large paychecks to success. Wrestling doesn't offer that, so it's as if it's a past time filled with lepers. Open up wrestling all you want, Martin. The reality is that it is one form of martial arts that the vast majority of Americans couldn't care less about and it is proven year after year after year through the complete lack of attendance at meets, the pitiful forms of revenue the sport sees and the ambivalance to anything that doesn't have a ball as part of the game.
As much as I hate to say this and love to say this at the same time, wrestling needs to align itself with MMA a bit more as the baseline sport that feeds the world its best fighters. These days, no one cares about who the best wrestler is or who the best jiu-jitsu guy is. It's all about who is the best guy out there who blends it all together. Who's the toughest guy on earth in ALL forms, not just one? American wrestling doesn't provide that sort of thing and it never will. I hate to be a pessimist, but I prefer to see myself as a realist.
Martin Floreani said: “You are right- who cares about being mainstream. And if we do things correctly we dont need to lose college programs, but add programs while staying an underground sport. The community needs to be connected. We need to be able to follow the sport better than you can follow college basketball or college football. It is a tall order but we can do it. No it wont be the traditional route through ESPN, but our own route...through online video interconnected all over the web. This difference will make us better. Our openness and diversity of videographers will make us better and more interesting than ESPN.”
What you are talking about can and should be done for NCAA wrestling and even at the high school levels. However, not only do I doubt USA Wrestling will ever want to "open it up," I really don't think they should right now. This is due to the fact that the US wrestlers need every advantage they can get against the Russians and other wrestlers from the former Soviet satellite states. Right now those wrestlers are overwhelmingly dominant and we don't need them to have access to a plethora of video of the best that we have to offer. No offense to our guys, but we don't have much to offer compared to those Russian beasts.
I would recommend trying harder to crack the NCAA egg. Obviously, the finals will never be broadcasted on Flo, but you all should and hopefully will get to go cover the Midlands and big tournaments that are during the season.
Is this about what is best for wrestling or what is best for Flo Wrestling? It seems to me that Flo is really wanting this because it helps Flo wrestling. How much coverage or promotion of any events if Flo is not there? Just asking the questions. I personally like the events being on TV. I want to expand our exposure of our sport out of our own little environment.
AMEN Martin. I know your not gonna be the saviour to this sport by yourself, but a hell of a start with that message. Im starting to do my part and i hope others are taking the initiative as well. Talkin is just fine. Walking gets us to our destination.
Awesome Flo! I would have frekin loved to see that match!!
If you're saying stop the espn 2 coverage and put it on the internet, i would disagree because to me the Nationals are like USA wrestling super bowl. I love seeing the sport on the national stage although I think ESPN coverage is somewhat weak because they don't really understand the sport. Think the website is great for the sport and is by far the best resource for wrestling. Love to see more of flowrestling style on USA website. Keep it up guys
I think wrestling exists at the club level for other Big 12 and SEC schools. That's a start. Another thing that has to happen is wrestling needs to grow at the youth and high school levels in states where there hasn't been much support in the past. Alabama is doing amazing things right now and finally got enough school wrestling programs to have a state tournament. Grow it more and maybe its top colleges will take notice.
If you appeal to the universities from an educational standpoint, then think about scholarships. If a state has a higher proportion of kids who wrestle then maybe a college will add wrestling, seeing it as another way to give more kids an opportunity for higher education.
Money is key. Even though wrestling programs don't cost much to run in comparison to other sports, times are tough right now and colleges won't risk draining their budgets by adding another sports program. So boosters must be found, ones who come up with business plans to show that the programs can pay for themselves entirely or almost so. ASU got dropped without any warning and it was only through quick planning and great boosters that the program was reinstated.
One must attack the problem from many angles such as popularity, participation, and finances. Also, it has been mentioned that some athletic directors don't care about wrestling. Short of getting them fired and replacing them with better ones, how do you win them over so we don't lose more programs?
Martin, you are a freaking maniac dude. that was awesome. You gave Rich a lot to think about, problem is, is that it made too much sense. I have traveled with USA wrestling and it is all by the dollar. ESPN offers the dollars and FLO offers coverage. Coverage that you say would have been totally awesome. Matches that MILLIONS would love to watch but can't get away to Vegas to watch in person. With access like that more people would come just to be apart of the excitement. They'd make sure that they made it their vacation. but since they've never been, it's hard to make that commitment.
I applaud you and your efforts, and if I were to ever win the lotto, you my friend in wrestling, would be hearing from me. Support needs to go where there is true passion and love for the sport and that is with you. Thank you for all you have done and for sharing all your videos with us.
Big Jim
How will Flo Wrestling help add wrestling to more schools in the Big 12 Conference and the SEC as examples? When these schools are in the mindset of focused excellence. You are based out of Austin so can you honestly say you think UT will add wrestling because we are an underground sport.
David Kobel said: “why do we want wrestling mainstreamed. Besides losing college programs what's it matter if we're not popular. Not meant to be rude. Just playing a little devils advocate.”
You are right- who cares about being mainstream. And if we do things correctly we dont need to lose college programs, but add programs while staying an underground sport. The community needs to be connected. We need to be able to follow the sport better than you can follow college basketball or college football. It is a tall order but we can do it. No it wont be the traditional route through ESPN, but our own route...through online video interconnected all over the web. This difference will make us better. Our openness and diversity of videographers will make us better and more interesting than ESPN.
martin you are a genius! i hate it when i tell someone i wrestle and they say, "like in a ring" "dont you guys wear leatards?" and my least favorite, "all you guys do is roll around with each other and hug other guys" trhey dont understand the true aspect and purity of our sport. no pro league. no million dollar contract. just a dirty sweaty old wrestlin room that is always loyal to us. thanks again
Ok..But we are dropping programs. We drop programs because we have ten people in the stands (yes, thats an exaggeration but you know what I mean). Is this about the good of wrestling or about what is best for Flo wrestling? Not to be rude but playing devil's advocate. When I look at major events during the year that Flo did not cover, you would not find a thing on their website about the event.
why do we want wrestling mainstreamed. Besides losing college programs what's it matter if we're not popular. Not meant to be rude. Just playing a little devils advocate.
However, UHHH, you are a wrestling person. I am talking about attracting new fans. This is going to be a debate that we will go round and round. I think both sides have their merits.
Martin revolutionized how the fans view the sport. There was no one like him before. How he interviewed and got the insight with great wrestlers. Martin ur right let Bender know......US Nat Fressstyle Finals-----1000 fans. Pityfull. USA Wrestling get ur stuff together and work with Martin. Martin u da man !!!!!!!!!! Hey I am thinking about changing my name to "da $100 Joker"....private joke only one ass hill billy knows what I am talking about.....but Martin for President. No World Peace mo wrestling !
Hey I watched one match on Flo and that got me hooked and I started watching twenty matches an hour for days and hey that got me going especially during the summer and fall so hey it works to a certain degreee
I am just curious on how Flo develops a greater and new fan base. It appeals to our core fan base but not to attract new or the casual fan. How many people on here can say that someone who never saw wrestling said, hey I saw a match on Flo versus someone saying, hey, I just saw some wrestling on ESPN. We are always going to be in a struggle of appealing to new fans versus satisfying the core fan base.
martin is the for real. It's a damn shame they couldn't video tape those matches and post them on flow. USA wrestling does such a terrible job marketing the sport in the US, which is why its exposure to the country is weak. Allow the sport to grow and gain a stable fan base (bigger than the one it has now), then start thinking about things like exclusivity rights. the way this is done is through greater exposure to the masses. Until then wrestling will continue to take a backseat to mainstream sports and will continue to die...slowly but surely
Simple solution exclusive rights to the finals and pre/post final interview since that all the ESPNs of the world would want anyways. Then open right to the rest of the event to the Flo's of the world.
FloWrestling is an awesome site. We have to combine tech with social. I was thinking about this and we are using technology the same amount - if not less - that the NFL did 10 years ago. We're lucky if we get coverage on ESPN on it, even if it is NCAA DIV I championships. And if they did cover it (live) how many people would watch it? So the main question should be, how do we get more people watching online?
if wrestling was mainstream it would be the best thing to happen to the us it would cure laziness lol but i think he has a good point one thing tho we wrestlers have prided ourselves on not being mainstream
Martin you have the passion, now you have to make this vision a reality and in doing so our sport , WRESTLING,can only grow in ways no one thought possible just five years ago.Keep asking why not .....GREAT JOB FLO!!!!!!
Great Job . Way to lay it on him . Why shouldn't you be able to film these matches . You're right , if they let you film , it would only promote their brand more !!
Anonymous Coward said: “flo you just made me change my mind about you.. all this time i just thought you were a weirdo but as a competitor and fan of the sport i see that you do want big things for the sport. We need more flowrestling sites and more people trying to get this exposure out and forget about rights. Because it comes down to the fact that not everyone can go to vegas or go to the world team trials but we are all fans and love the sport just as much. Thanks flo keep getting in the way and make yourself known”
I love Anonymous Cowards' posts and this is a CLASSIC opening line that sent me running from my office cubicle in tears laughing. Now I want to post something and just start with "Flo, I have changed my mind about you....in the past I really thought you were a NO TALENT BIG JERK who deserves a slow torturous demise but after watching this video, I now think you are thenext coming of Ghandi." You gotta love an opener like that!
Martin and Zebber, I think you guys should just take all of your cameras and video equipment along with a couple of AK-47s and that insane machine gun that Jessie The Body used in Predator to the World Team Trials and when the beaurocrats at USA Wrestling attempt to stop you from filming, just go Rambo on them. I bet they never think about copyright laws or monopolies again!
flo you just made me change my mind about you.. all this time i just thought you were a weirdo but as a competitor and fan of the sport i see that you do want big things for the sport. We need more flowrestling sites and more people trying to get this exposure out and forget about rights. Because it comes down to the fact that not everyone can go to vegas or go to the world team trials but we are all fans and love the sport just as much. Thanks flo keep getting in the way and make yourself known
its very hard to find genuine caring people. martin, joe, and the flo team are dedicating their lives to wrestling, and from the way it seems, making little to almost no money, just enough to get by. around a year ago martin posted the tax return of the guy last year and he made a sh*t ton of money compared to what he should be paid based on his performance. flo deserves to be running the show. but instead their working around it. bottom line people are greedy, at least we have flo who really cares about the sport instead of abusing it to make a profit.
thank you some computers cant change there provider to watch those finals which is stupid and USA wrestling not letting flo cover the finals thats stupid so now i have to wait til july to see the finals just like i have to wait til july to see the senior finals and not all the finals just a 30 min highlight video
I feel that although the market for wrestling isn't nearly as mainstream as the NFL or NBA, but the fans enthusiasm for the sport is second to none. My son and I search for every match that we can access all season long. I think that a good point is made in the video about many of the matches in the NCAA tourney that we cannot see. If ESPN does not air the match they should let flo record them. Who wouldn't have wanted to see how some of the number one seeds got upset. Every match at the tourney was worth having access to. These wrestlers are the best in the country!
Met Bender once and these interviews give a nice door opening to him and his vision and thoughts, seems pretty genuine....Thanks Rich for taking the time and doing these interviews..it really is a great start for many of us to connect State USA to what the National USA is all about...
Inclusive is always the answer for success...right on Martin......wrestling is built on including all....as athletes, coaches and organizations...keep leading the way my friend....theres a time and a place to raise the level of pressure on these administrators and this is a great start...you got the ball rolling....
I love wrestling, i didnt start wrestling until 8th grade unlike majority of wrestlers who started when they were 3 or 4. I played football since i was 5 and now i'm 16 and a sophmore. i never even heard of wrestling being a sport after college. i didnt kno squat. then the assistant wrestling coach/ass. football coach told me i have i great build for wrestling i was like that gay ass sport hell no. then when i whatched it on tv i was hooked when i first hit the mats i was addictied and still am and now i have D1 and D2 colleges looking at me for wrestling not football. we need wresting to open up more. with todays economy we cant just depend on one contract or sponsor to help. The wrestling community needs to come together as a whole and say hey we love this sport and we want other people to be exposed to it to. Because you never know, we might miss that oylimpic gold metelist just because we we're caught up in ourselves
Open access to matches might bolster more of an international frenzy amongst the US wrestling cult, but we need to be enthusiasts of international styles first. For the most part USians don't understand the rules and concepts of the international styles because their mindset is based on the country's folkstyle instead. Change from folkstyle to international styles would help increase excitement for USA wrestling.
As far as more coverage goes, our international wrestlers are not at the level of the Russians and other wrestlers from the former Soviet satellite states. Just look to the past Olympics and we can see how much more dominant they are than the U.S. It might be a disservice to our wrestlers if we allow open access to a plethora of their matches which can add to an international opponent's scouting.
martin,
you are always a leader in this sport and have done so much to advance the cause of wrestling. i really appreciated these interviews, however i think as a good journalist you needed to push rich bender a little bit more to give real HONEST answers to your questions. why was kj let go? he didn't really answer this question but rather gave you the cookie cutter politically correct response. what does zeke really bring to this program? he is unproven as a coach. why has russia dominated us so thoroughly over the last 4-10 years? why can't we get more money to our athletes now? why do the russian olympic gold medalists get BMW's from their dagastanian oil tycoon while clarissa chun maybe gets $40,000? you didn't probe him enough about the ralph marinetti experience at NCAA's. rich let you in on some very inside info about how he brought the head of FILA to the NCAA's to try and change the international style from f/s to folk and you just nodded your head and gave him a couple of "o.k's." that's huge news. what came of that meeting. what was ralph marinetti's feelings on folkstyle. what years was that? he fed you a bone there and you just dropped the ball. and the most important question you forgot to ask rich was about MMA. our best and brightest stars are fleeing USA wrestling for greener pasteurs. ben askren, phil davis, jake rosholt, johnny hendricks, henry cejudo, etc all have left wrestling to pursue mma. if we expect to not only compete with the russians but beat them one day we need to retain our best stars. what is usa wrestling doing to ensure that our most promising wrestlers continue wrestling and don't leave to compete in mixed martial arts???
martin, i know you are capable of more. instead of another front lawn wrestling match between you and joe in austin, set up more meetings with usa wrestling management, with russian federation management, with FILA to really try and see where we as a country can grow and get better. and as a journalist, don't just settle for the politically correct answer. if you see an inroad, probe and get to the deeper more honest truth.
keep up the good work.
I gaurantee NOT ONE PERSON changed their internet provider to watch NHSCA nationals. What a bad move on their part. My favorite is when people complain about the coverage on flowrestling of NHSCA. NHSCA is consumed by their own greed. I think USA wrestling feels that when their contract is up with whomever that they will go with flowrestling, hopefully.
I believe the inaccessibility to watch wrestling is the single most detrimental thing in the sport. As a life long fan and coach Flo has brought the sport we love into our homes. Most people can't travel to all these events and if we could where would you put everyone. USA wrestling needs to make the sport more fan friendly. The ESPN contract isn't available everywhere so it is useless to me. USA could have done a pay per view on Flo and everyone that wanted to see the Open could have. Martin keep up the good work and where can we buy Flowrestling Gear.
He is so right, share don't restrict. Look what NHSCA did, they had ESPN 360 do the finals, how many people changed their Internet provider to watch that. That is just a small example of how we are hurting wrestling. We would film every match at the Open and team trials if they let us. What is better, no matches or a couple finals?
Keep up the great work Martin. You have the right picture of the sport. It is not mainstream and never will be, but by increasing availability of the product , the average fan can become a rabid fan like the rest of us. As a coach, I send many video matches and technique clips to my team and half the time the parents (who never wrestled) watch them and love them. Also, friends (non-wrestlers) of my kids see the videos while their hangin' out and they want to try it or at the very least come watch a practice. How bad is it that none of my team even knew that the GR/FS National Championships were even taking place last week? USA wrestling needs Flo deperately....you are the site that wrestlers and fans check on a daily or 2x...3x...4x..a week.
let me start off as saying martin is bar none the coolest dude out there o.k. and its BS that USA wrestling signs these exlusive conracts with companys like espnu and live sports video when flo does a better hob is free and totally connects the wrestling comunity MARTIN SHOULD BE WRESTLINGS SPOKESPERSON
Wrestling cant afford to be closed. Wrestling cant afford not to be out there. Wrestling is competing with every other activity out there and has to step it up. April 13, 2009
Open Up Wrestling
I am tired of more of that stuff than wrestling.
Big 10 network has been great.
Flowrestling will revolutionize the sport if they will embrace Martin. He has built quite a organization.
Also Martin doesn't understand business. It sucks, but people have to make money, otherwise there's no way to provide anything. We hate espn becasue they are not a charity, and we expect them and USA wrestling to provide all this awesome coverage.
To me, espn is like a drug company. The drugs that you buy at the store cost probably 1/400th of what you pay. But they sell them at that price because people will take what they can get. If you know basic economics, the supply line is vertical.
And Martin is very knowledgeable about this issue. His passion is obvious, and I wish I had it for the sport. Let's just hope he doesn't run for politics, and then next thing you know we are a communist country and the borders have been knocked down. I love flo, but also if you are interviewing with the head of USA wrestling, try and show a little more respect for the organization, no matter what you feel or want to say. Just my thoughts..
“If I filmed that match between Graff and Gomez, could I post it on FloWrestling without getting into trouble?”
Thanks for the civilized and rationalized post in response to my comments.
Martin has this army of followers, I am sure that they could more than cover the rights costs by asking for donations or sponsors.
their coverage also included some interesting stories, that they hadn't done in the past.
btw espn showed the quarters on up to the finals, including the medal rounds, not just the finals.
That said, we need some new thinking, if we are to grow. Our biggest events need to be opened up to other broadcasts, like FLO. At the very least, the matches that will not be broadcast by the big players like ESPN.
Basketball and Football aren't huge because ESPN broadcasts their events, ESPN broadcasts their events because they are huge. We need to work on getting huge first, then worry about who to sell the broadcast rights to. Get fans excited, get people to buy in, and then have your choice of media, if that is what we want.
Regardless, if we are never to be main stream sport, OPEN will be better for everyone as we will get to see matches that we otherwise would not, if we are to grow and become main stream, OPEN will get us there by growing the base and broadcasters will want to cover more of our events. win-win
Now USAW coverage on the other hand, has been terrible and needs to expand. But those are two different entities.
Why doesn't Flo pay a fee to USAW or other groups to provide live coverage of the events? They want the coverage and they are a media outlet then they should pay a fee to have the exclusive coverage of the event. It is not that hard. Pay and you probably can have the exclusive video of the event.
“I am with you Martin. ESPN and LSV coverage of wrestling events have not grown the sport. I am not saying I do not like the ESPN coverage of the NCAAs, I think it is a great event, but really, how excited can those outside of the sport get at an event where they know nothing about the athletes, and have not been following the season.
Wrestling is getting killed right now, and staying the course will not improve the situation. we need to open up the coverage and events. Live FLO events, or other similar sites, with good commentary, and consistent coverage will help our sport. I was willing to listen to live commentary on FLO, but unwilling to pay ESPN360 to watch the events. How can we grow as a sport when guys who eat, sleep, and breath wrestling are unwilling to pay the ESPNs of the world to watch the sport? This is the hard reality.
Maybe it's time for a big national quality tournament to try open live coverage. Maybe the FLO OPEN? Or OPEN FLO?”
Keeping our sport only inside our little community is not healthy. ESPN has really started to expand the coverage on TV and online.
And the idea that our coverage should be free is exactly the reason why our sport suffers. Our fans are cheap and simply won't pay to watch our sport, yet every other fans of the major sports do constantly. Thus the reason why they get so much coverage. When our current fans start to open up their pocket books and quick thinking everything in our sport should be free, that's when you'll see some REAL change.
If you really want to make a difference in this sport, go to some live college duals and bring some friends. Donate money to your local college teams, as well. That's what this sport needs more of.
Wrestling is getting killed right now, and staying the course will not improve the situation. we need to open up the coverage and events. Live FLO events, or other similar sites, with good commentary, and consistent coverage will help our sport. I was willing to listen to live commentary on FLO, but unwilling to pay ESPN360 to watch the events. How can we grow as a sport when guys who eat, sleep, and breath wrestling are unwilling to pay the ESPNs of the world to watch the sport? This is the hard reality.
Maybe it's time for a big national quality tournament to try open live coverage. Maybe the FLO OPEN? Or OPEN FLO?
“I agre to Disagree Tom”
“Is this about what is best for wrestling or what is best for Flo Wrestling? It seems to me that Flo is really wanting this because it helps Flo wrestling. How much coverage or promotion of any events if Flo is not there? Just asking the questions. I personally like the events being on TV. I want to expand our exposure of our sport out of our own little environment.”
The NCAA finals are on ESPNU because the NCAA has a contract for every single one of their sports with ESPN except for those that produce the most money. NCAA wrestling is not the Rose Bowl or the Final Four.
Let's face it folks, America is not a country that loves wrestling and it never will be--ever. Sure, we'd all love to believe in our minds that it can be because we're already convinced, but we're preaching to the choir here. Wrestling is not a money maker in any form of the sport (except for Ken Chertow, maybe) and many Americans equate large paychecks to success. Wrestling doesn't offer that, so it's as if it's a past time filled with lepers. Open up wrestling all you want, Martin. The reality is that it is one form of martial arts that the vast majority of Americans couldn't care less about and it is proven year after year after year through the complete lack of attendance at meets, the pitiful forms of revenue the sport sees and the ambivalance to anything that doesn't have a ball as part of the game.
As much as I hate to say this and love to say this at the same time, wrestling needs to align itself with MMA a bit more as the baseline sport that feeds the world its best fighters. These days, no one cares about who the best wrestler is or who the best jiu-jitsu guy is. It's all about who is the best guy out there who blends it all together. Who's the toughest guy on earth in ALL forms, not just one? American wrestling doesn't provide that sort of thing and it never will. I hate to be a pessimist, but I prefer to see myself as a realist.
“You are right- who cares about being mainstream. And if we do things correctly we dont need to lose college programs, but add programs while staying an underground sport. The community needs to be connected. We need to be able to follow the sport better than you can follow college basketball or college football. It is a tall order but we can do it. No it wont be the traditional route through ESPN, but our own route...through online video interconnected all over the web. This difference will make us better. Our openness and diversity of videographers will make us better and more interesting than ESPN.”
I would recommend trying harder to crack the NCAA egg. Obviously, the finals will never be broadcasted on Flo, but you all should and hopefully will get to go cover the Midlands and big tournaments that are during the season.
If you're saying stop the espn 2 coverage and put it on the internet, i would disagree because to me the Nationals are like USA wrestling super bowl. I love seeing the sport on the national stage although I think ESPN coverage is somewhat weak because they don't really understand the sport. Think the website is great for the sport and is by far the best resource for wrestling. Love to see more of flowrestling style on USA website. Keep it up guys
If you appeal to the universities from an educational standpoint, then think about scholarships. If a state has a higher proportion of kids who wrestle then maybe a college will add wrestling, seeing it as another way to give more kids an opportunity for higher education.
Money is key. Even though wrestling programs don't cost much to run in comparison to other sports, times are tough right now and colleges won't risk draining their budgets by adding another sports program. So boosters must be found, ones who come up with business plans to show that the programs can pay for themselves entirely or almost so. ASU got dropped without any warning and it was only through quick planning and great boosters that the program was reinstated.
One must attack the problem from many angles such as popularity, participation, and finances. Also, it has been mentioned that some athletic directors don't care about wrestling. Short of getting them fired and replacing them with better ones, how do you win them over so we don't lose more programs?
I applaud you and your efforts, and if I were to ever win the lotto, you my friend in wrestling, would be hearing from me. Support needs to go where there is true passion and love for the sport and that is with you. Thank you for all you have done and for sharing all your videos with us.
Big Jim
“why do we want wrestling mainstreamed. Besides losing college programs what's it matter if we're not popular. Not meant to be rude. Just playing a little devils advocate.”
Nice On-The-Fly speech Martin.
here are some of these videos we thought we might not see
“flo you just made me change my mind about you.. all this time i just thought you were a weirdo but as a competitor and fan of the sport i see that you do want big things for the sport. We need more flowrestling sites and more people trying to get this exposure out and forget about rights. Because it comes down to the fact that not everyone can go to vegas or go to the world team trials but we are all fans and love the sport just as much. Thanks flo keep getting in the way and make yourself known”
GOD BLESS WRESTLING
As far as more coverage goes, our international wrestlers are not at the level of the Russians and other wrestlers from the former Soviet satellite states. Just look to the past Olympics and we can see how much more dominant they are than the U.S. It might be a disservice to our wrestlers if we allow open access to a plethora of their matches which can add to an international opponent's scouting.
you are always a leader in this sport and have done so much to advance the cause of wrestling. i really appreciated these interviews, however i think as a good journalist you needed to push rich bender a little bit more to give real HONEST answers to your questions. why was kj let go? he didn't really answer this question but rather gave you the cookie cutter politically correct response. what does zeke really bring to this program? he is unproven as a coach. why has russia dominated us so thoroughly over the last 4-10 years? why can't we get more money to our athletes now? why do the russian olympic gold medalists get BMW's from their dagastanian oil tycoon while clarissa chun maybe gets $40,000? you didn't probe him enough about the ralph marinetti experience at NCAA's. rich let you in on some very inside info about how he brought the head of FILA to the NCAA's to try and change the international style from f/s to folk and you just nodded your head and gave him a couple of "o.k's." that's huge news. what came of that meeting. what was ralph marinetti's feelings on folkstyle. what years was that? he fed you a bone there and you just dropped the ball. and the most important question you forgot to ask rich was about MMA. our best and brightest stars are fleeing USA wrestling for greener pasteurs. ben askren, phil davis, jake rosholt, johnny hendricks, henry cejudo, etc all have left wrestling to pursue mma. if we expect to not only compete with the russians but beat them one day we need to retain our best stars. what is usa wrestling doing to ensure that our most promising wrestlers continue wrestling and don't leave to compete in mixed martial arts???
martin, i know you are capable of more. instead of another front lawn wrestling match between you and joe in austin, set up more meetings with usa wrestling management, with russian federation management, with FILA to really try and see where we as a country can grow and get better. and as a journalist, don't just settle for the politically correct answer. if you see an inroad, probe and get to the deeper more honest truth.
keep up the good work.