Dude that ref is an ! He didn't call thise shots that Leen turned his knee potential dangerous!
#71
Unbiasedopinion March 19 at 8:10pm
O'connor wrestled like a little girl. He did everything he could to stop actual wrestling from going on. Putting his knee in positions he knows it isn't supposed to be in over and over again. Asking for injury time when he felt he was in trouble. O'connor is just not the wrestler the rest of the 157lb contenders are and he knows it. He was trying to do what he could to make it look respectable.
#70
A Knight's Tale March 12 at 8:08pm
Has anyone ever seen this movie? When Heath's character goes through with the joust when he was "supposed" to yield? His friend says, "You knowingly endanger a member of the royal family?" His response, "He knowingly endangers himself."
Leen didn't make O'Connor dive for the leg and torgue his knee. He did it to himself.
#69
JR88 March 12 at 6:29pm
whether O'Connor was bending his own knee by diving over to grab the ankle or not, it is still cause for a potentially dangerous call. The referee did a terrible job, and although you shouldn't blame the ref for a loss, he did impact the outcome of the match. He called it once earlier, and if he did that, he should have called it every time.
#68
Anonymous Coward March 12 at 10:35am
I like the adjustment in the 2nd period before he went down
#67
Havard Grad March 12 at 10:23am
I am a two time AA.
#66
Rick March 12 at 6:44am
Harvard Grad said: “As a former Harvard wrestler I am personally disgusted with the way JP wrestled, he needs to wrestle and stop whining to the ref. Jordan Leen came to wrestle and just layed the smack down on JP...even though he is a ginger...”
How many AA's did you earn at Harvard? The thought of you being disgusted with JP makes me laugh. He is one of the best wrestlers in the history of that school and you're disgusted with his whining?
#65
GSBoner March 11 at 9:29pm
Show me where in the rulebook it says that. I'm waiting. Leen has the leg in before JP stands up, but you can see he doesn't throw it in until JP begins to work up. Same thing happens at 8:27 except JP beat him to it that time.
#64
Sknight149 March 11 at 1:50pm
Koll wasn't happy with the ref stopping the match at 3:07. The ref should have called potential about 10 seconds earlier. O'Conn's knee was twisted. Screw the booers in the crowd.
Leen nay sayers....get real. First, watch Oconnor's match with Sickles. Look at the leg issue with all of Sickle's take downs/shots. Same exact thing, except that Sickles was not a very physical wrestler by comparison. Then, watch all of Oconnor's other mathces this year. Oconnor ties up, slows the match down and only works defensively. Leen took the match to him. His shots and multiple take downs where straight forward. You get a leg and you go to lift or come around. A potentially dangerous move is when the wrestler in the defensive position is UNABLE to release the move and thereby give up point(s). Oconnor could have given up the takedown, but instead, either gives the leg up to outward position OR he swings around and puts himself in that position....something that has become very common in contemporary folkstyle and freestyle wrestling.
The mule style kick: Leen had 6 seconds to score the escape. He did what any wrestler would do if in a position where the top wrestler has only an ankle: he continued to try to move forward and use whatever means allowed to release the hold on the ankle. It is quite clear that he was working aggressively to kick the hand hold off the ankle. He wasn't looking back, he was working. That is Div. I wrestling, period. The ref made correct calls and there were other refs working the mat....I was there.
Learn the rules. If the top wrestler has the leg in BEFORE the bottom wrestler attempts to stand, then there is no stall if and when the bottom wrestler comes up to feet, which Oconnor did over and over again, because he knew that Leen often and usually scores back points when he is on top. AND, if the top man's arm hold is locked before the bottom man stands, same thing. Leen used this to bring Dragon back to the mat a few times in the previous match last weekend, and score back points. The camera angle does not show some of these finer points, but I was in the stands with a clear view from the other angle.
So, say what you will. Leen took it to Oconnor, won the match the way he should have and did it completely fair and square and the officiating in the finals for all ten weight classes was good. He won, not by one or two points. He won it clearly and cleanly. He was the aggressor. Oconnor took no meaningful shots the whole match. Leen took a number of shots and scored. Period.
Talk trash if you want, but for goodness sakes, learn the rules and take each match in context before running off at the keyboard. Oconnor got the finals with one or two points each match , including OT. Leen majored and/or pinned his way to the finals. And he hasn't peaked yet, this season.
#62
Jd March 10 at 6:49pm
Leen is the farthest thing from a dirty wrestler. He goes hard every minute and does anything to win and i think some of that got caught up in here but he is definitely a great guy. The only thing i find wrong with this match is the referee calling stalling on JP when he was doing his job getting up and attempting to shake off Leen every time. There is nothing else he can do it should have been stalling on Leen who was riding parallel with his legs and not doing anything. Final thing JP did not wrestle like he can this weekend he needs to wake up at ncaa's
#61
Watch A Kolat Match March 10 at 6:40pm
leen was doing nothing cheap with oconnors knee! oconnor was diving over leens body if you have ever watched a kolat match he does it all the time. he dives over the guy with his foot bent out and reaches for the guys ankle. oconnor was doing that to himself!
#60
TO THE HATERS March 10 at 6:18pm
For everyone who calls Jordan Leen a dirty wrestler and that he wrestled cheap please wake up. After all this is is wrestling. I understand some things happened in this match that flared up tempers and brought out a lot of passion but to say he wrestled dirty and cheap is just absurd. Leen went after him with explosive shots and leg attacks and for the most part pushed JP the whole match. Its wrestling and Leen was on a mission in this one and was clearly better. As a fan of wrestling this match was great
#59
Ohio March 10 at 4:03pm
I agree with buffet, all but the head kick that should've cost Leen 1. As far as the knee goes, if there was no such thing as potentially dangerous O'Connor would have given up 2, he was counting on that call and didn't get it. Besides if his knee was injured he wouldn't have gotten back up, it may have hurt but wasn't injured. Leen is definately the better wrestler.
#58
Sam March 10 at 3:32pm
Leen is a stand-up guy anyone that has met him knows that, it was an intense match and Leen's funky style might have made the face kick look intentional. As for the knee it's the ref's job to call potentially dangerous and it was ludacris that he didn't. Congradulations Jordan
#57
At EIWAs March 10 at 1:41pm
Leen showed after he realized he kicked JP in the head (2ce in a row) that he just realized he was kicking his head, and he tapped JP on the back several times to try and say that he was sorry (so it seemed). Watch the tape again. Many people only remember the match from the stands. I do not like what I saw with JP's knee.... the NCAA refs better do a better job looking for that.
#56
Inpatient March 10 at 1:06pm
Jordan Leen wrestled a cheap match begining to en and then he offers a hand after he kick O'connor in the face three times. That ref sucks, sucks , sucks. He should be banned. Leen, pulled and grabbed the head gear multiple times, went against the joint on the same knee multiple times, kicked O'Connor in the face multiple times. That was a disgrace both for Leen and that hack referee. That ref should go back to the peewees because that is his skill level. I am sure O'Connor wanted to get off the mat before The ref let Leen ruin his ACL. Notice at the end how buddy buddy the ref and Leen were. That Ref is a bum.
#55
Jebus March 10 at 12:16pm
Man did that ref let a lot of crap go. Should've called stalling on Leen a bunch while on top and potentially dangerous on the knee torques.
#54
Anonymous Coward March 10 at 10:47am
that was close but his knee was bent back
#53
Tom March 10 at 10:19am
Buffett said: “1st Pd.
Leen is all about the snap downs and re-shots. That misdirection low single was nasty though! OConnor could have given up the takedown and not been injured, he has the choice. Nothing dirty, just wrestling.
OConnor didn't seem to have an offensive answer.
2nd Pd.
Leen does need to do more on top than just tie up the head and arm. That was a TERRIBLE stalling call against OConnor. I thought Lenn should have been hit early and forced to either give up a point for an escape or for stalling.
College wrestling is a rough'n tough business...it isn't for everyone.
3rd Pd.
Leen is just taking it to OConnor on their feet. OConnor doesn't seem to have an offensive answer.
Please keep in mind, college wrestling is NOT a nice business, before criticizing attacking someone's weakness.”
BS! College wrestling is a tough gig but not dirty business. You do'n attack someone knee unless you're a scum bag period.
#52
PaProud March 10 at 7:52am
When someone from PA gets beat, we people from PA accept that.
When someone from NY gets beat, well...
Leen wrestled awesome, JPO didnt. Everything else is just wimp excuses.
#51
Ncusa March 9 at 10:47pm
its not potentially dangerous if the wrestler puts himself inthat position
#50
Max March 9 at 9:43pm
that low single is dirty its putting jp in a bad position every time
#49
D3AA78 March 9 at 9:18pm
gingerbreadman...that's funny...Big Red is getting hard to root for...
hardass wrestling no doubt!
#48
At The Eiwa March 9 at 8:05pm
This is a rivalry... although the match was dirty (Leen). This isn't baseball. Wrestling is an aggressive, contact sport. Leen went into this match on a mission - against the #1 seed who beat him earlier in the year. I do think the official was asleep for many of the possible calls that could have been made, but all in all, it was a great brawl between 2 rivals.
#47
Fan21 March 9 at 6:27pm
that those god damn reffs suck!
it should have been potentially dangerous multiple times.
#46
Wow March 9 at 6:22pm
I can't believe the crowd in this one. You can see his face contorted up, no class at all
#45
Wtf March 9 at 6:09pm
you want his knee to break off the mans leg holy potentionaly dangerous is a great thing its to protect from a mans limb from snapping off
#44
Kehs March 9 at 5:58pm
If a wrestler is standing facing you and kicks you it is illegal. 1 point, end of discussion. No difference where the kick happens. Leen wins anyway. Don't see him with another loss. Banged up jp's leg really well.
If you are continuosly putting Yourself in the same situation, I don't think it is "dangerous". If it was, you wouldn't do it again. Its a different situation when a wrestler is causing the torque to his own body.
Bending your own body for the sole purpose a ref will stop it ("potentially dangerous") and save you from giving up points is wrong, and we need new rules that address this situation.
What if a wrester kept his arm behind his back and moved his own hand up so his arm went past 90 everytime someone got ready to score? Guys should start the match in their stance with 1 hand behind their back...if you make a good double leg shot, then the guy just pushes his own hand up so his arm is past 90...ref stops it, pot. dangerous, no points. Its the same thing.
And I'm not faulting Oconner....I just think when a wrestler can put himself in an akward position just to avoid points, something is wrong with the system.
#41
?!?! March 9 at 3:53pm
whatr was the final score
#40
PhilR March 9 at 3:37pm
Horrible Officiating! Having “flexible knees” has NOTHING to do with a potentially dangerous situation! You can have extremely flexible shoulders but if the arm goes past 90 degrees it’s potentially dangerous and it can be called illegal. When I guys knee is being torked in a direction it was not designed to bend in, it is the official’s duty to call the potentially dangerous hold. There is no “well he’s flexible, so I’ll let it go” BS! Potentially dangerous is potentially dangerous – period!
Bringing your opponent back to the mat is the responsibility of the offensive wrestler. If the defensive wrestler stands up it is the offensive wrestler who is in control and has to bring him back to the mat or it is STALLING! Doesn’t matter if you have a leg in or not. Add to that putting a figure 4 around the body, not once, but at least 3 times is an illegal hold (not a technical violation) and should have been called on 3 separate occasions in this match. The kick to the head was just ridiculous. O’Connor did not “put his head” there. Pushing off is one thing, winding up and kicking off, something else altogether.
Terrible officiating turned what should have been a good match into a farce… I’ve got to think the refs at the NCAA’s will be a bit more on the ball.
#39
Joe March 9 at 3:13pm
leen is a beast!
#38
NJCoach -- On Sickles March 9 at 3:10pm
Final thought -- I think Derek Sickles from Columbia totally deserves a bid. Despite placing fifth, he gave JP all he could handle in the quarters losing by a point on a rideout after 6 periods. Despite all the talk about 149 being the toughest weight at EIWA this year, I think it might have been 157 -- Leen, O'Conner, Winston, Dragon, Sickles placing first through fifth respectively, with the top two being returning AAs. EIWA gets 4 at 157 with new system.
Sickles is a senior and IMO deserves a WC bid.
#37
NJCoach March 9 at 1:59pm
Thanks "AmenToAll" -- both guys are great -- the better guy on Sunday won on Sunday.
Good comments Buffett. Again, only thing I'll say on the second period is that Leen had legs in BEFORE JP came up. Leen loves to use legs to extend kids and power half them to their back, JP countered by coming up to his feet and getting the stalemate. It was a tough call on JP, but there is a solid rationale for the call.
#36
Da Troof March 9 at 1:55pm
Standing up does not entail a stalemate, it's all about what you do once you're there.
#35
Buffett March 9 at 1:28pm
1st Pd.
Leen is all about the snap downs and re-shots. That misdirection low single was nasty though! OConnor could have given up the takedown and not been injured, he has the choice. Nothing dirty, just wrestling.
OConnor didn't seem to have an offensive answer.
2nd Pd.
Leen does need to do more on top than just tie up the head and arm. That was a TERRIBLE stalling call against OConnor. I thought Lenn should have been hit early and forced to either give up a point for an escape or for stalling.
College wrestling is a rough'n tough business...it isn't for everyone.
3rd Pd.
Leen is just taking it to OConnor on their feet. OConnor doesn't seem to have an offensive answer.
Please keep in mind, college wrestling is NOT a nice business, before criticizing attacking someone's weakness.
#34
Fan March 9 at 1:25pm
take the knee thing from someone who used to do it, its jp's fault. i tore my mcl by defending shots this way, so it can be dangerous, but thats the risk you run if youre going to use it as a defense. why you would blame leen is beyond me, do you really think he wants to put jp's knee in that position to make it that much harder for him to finish his shot?
#33
AmenToALL March 9 at 1:23pm
Perfect summary of events in question NJCoach. Rough match, the way it should be, like the old days. Two great wrestlers, One great match, One winner. If all matches were this exciting wrestling would be a HUGE sport.
#32
NJCoach March 9 at 1:07pm
Amen to you NYer -- I'm a big JPO fan too, but Leen simply won this one fair and square. I was there third row center right on the mat. A couple of things from my perspective: stalling call on JP -- very questionable, BUT, Leen consistently had the legs in BEFORE JP came to tripod/feet. Leen was NOT throwing in legs in an effort to hang AFTER JP came up. Big difference in who gets called for the stall there. The guy who continues to tripod up for the stalemate once his opponent has legs in is, in fact, stalling.
As for the kick -- I was right there -- he was obviously kicking for the grip to break it. He hit spot on the grip one time and caught a little face another, but I agree -- this isn't ballet, and bottom line -- two refs were right on it and didn't call anything.
Leen is peaking at the perfect time -- just like last year. Beyond all of his physical ability and skill, his aggressiveness, physicality, speed, flexibility, strength -- he is simply a beast mentally. He just refused to lose this one. If he does that in St. Louis, he could pull out another championship in perhaps the deepest weight class this year. Either guy is capable but, listen up any complainers -- JP might want to "take a page" from Leen to have a shot at a title.
Good luck to both guys in St. Louis.
#31
Tom 3.5 March 9 at 12:54pm
There's a difference between pushing off by kicking and going from no contact to kicking.
If a guy hits you with a headlock and you can't breathe, the last thing you're worried about is a penalty point. There's a reason for that. These guys are competitors, they're not just gonna start tapping out from headlocks so they don't get scored on.
#30
NYer March 9 at 12:23pm
Im a huge JPO fan, grew up wrestling with him but for the most part he was just outwrestled. The kick to the head was not intentional and JP put his own leg in that position not neccesary intending to get a PD called but to avoid being taken down. Good Luck at NCAAs to both
#29
Tom 3.0 March 9 at 12:12pm
Rule 5.8
So if a guy hits you with a headlock, and you can't breathe, it's illegal? LMAO
Rule 5.5
Purely an interpretive rule. Im just happy the ref wasnt half a pansie, like most of the wimps making excuses for JPO. He got beat, thats all...
#28
Rule 5.10.5 March 9 at 12:11pm
Stalling—Rear-Standing Position. Repeatedly applying the legs
while in the rear-standing position is stalling.
5.10.6 - Defensive Position. Refusing to wrestle aggressively in the defensive
position is stalling. The contestant in the defensive position must initiate
action designed to escape or reverse the opponent. Failure to make
these attempts is stalling.
#27
Rule 5.8 March 9 at 12:05pm
Any hold with pressure exerted over the opponent’s mouth, nose,
throat or neck that restricts breathing or circulation is illegal.
It may not have been Leen's intention, so it's perfectly fine...
#26
Rule 5.5 March 9 at 12:03pm
Unnecessary roughness involves physical acts that occur during a match. It
includes any act that exceeds normal aggressiveness. It would include, but
is not limited to, a forceful slap to the head or face, gouging or poking the
eyes, a forceful application of a crossface, a forceful trip, or a forearm or
elbow used in a punishing way, such as on the spine or the back of the head
or neck. Points for unnecessary roughness shall be awarded in addition to
points earned.
Kicking out is fine, when it comes to striking the face with one's foot to stomp the opponent away...
#25
Joe O March 9 at 10:44am
Years ago, when Shawn Garel wrestled for Oklahoma University, he was so fast that he would pull an opponents head gear down to distract the opponent and then he would drop in for a takedown. Shawn had many superior athletic traits and didn't win his national title by this trick, he just used everything he had to win. Moves like that will hurt one's chances of being canonized for sainthood, but they are a part of wrestling that great competitors should take and move on to the victory in spite of the 'trick'. Leen seemed to apologize for kicking O'Connor in the face and it could have been done in the heat of the moment, yet in competion sports maybe it wasn't unintentional. I certainly can not ascribe intent from watching a video either to Leen or O'Connor. I think it is clear that both these young men are outstanding competitors and on a good day either one could win. I am thinking about the comment made by 'Danger.' He has a point, but it seemed like these guys radiated ferral intensity. O'Connor seems to have a knee injury already and just wrestling is risking the joint by anyone. The knee was bothering him during the match and all that twisting isn't anyone's idea of therapeutic. O'Connor and Leen are so competitive that one or the other might have shredded a ligament before conceding a takedown. I am not an adovocate of either one over the other. It was a rough and tumble match and I commend them both.
#24
OvaHere March 9 at 10:42am
Check out all these Joey O's and Tony G's showing up to make excuses for JPO.
#23
Tony G March 9 at 10:35am
Seems like that ref was a friend of Leen's. PD was called late, the kick to the head should have been a point and no stalling on O'connor. Not to say JP would have won, but certainly the ref wasn't helping.
#22
Tom March 9 at 10:11am
I see Leen understanding that JPO beat him once this year and attacking the knee JPO hurt last year at the NCAA's. Leen pulled the headgear, kickstarted his face, and lost ALL respect I had for him.
#21
Danger March 9 at 10:04am
Potentially Dangerous? I see a wrestler with very flexible knees, I dont see "Danger". Oconner repeatedly put himself in these situations to avoid takedowns. If there was "danger', don't you think he would stop turning his body 180 degrees when someone gets his leg? He could be risking his athletic carreer. If there was real "danger", wouldn't he turn his body back and give up the points?
I think when a defensive man purposely puts himself in a "potentially dangerous" situation, the ref should stop the match and award the points.
#20
Joe O March 9 at 9:07am
Both of these men are excellent wrestlers. I see Leen as more explosive in his penetrations, better at changing levels, better at finishing, and better at riding for this match. Those factors certainly made a differance, but also Leen seemed to be fueled by more aggressive mental toughness. The stalling calls did not tilt the match in Leen's favor as it was already going his way and didn't change by the confusing stalling calls. I would have liked to have seen the dangerous situation calls made faster. Who cares who put the person in the situation, if it is dangerous, then responsibly the referee must stop it to prevent further injury to the lads. O'Connor looked to be in a lot of pain-certainly this could have affected the performance of this top notch athelete. I can't think of a deeper weight class for these two to enter then 157. Any one of at least 5 wrestlers have national championship potential and I wish these two luck in the big show.
#19
NYSmAckTalkers March 9 at 8:25am
1. If Leen was born in NY and wrestled in L.I. he would be "the man"
2. O'Connor put his own knee in those situations, not Leen, Idiots. Besides, It looks like JPO's knee was working great after that first period fake injury time fiasco. After all he did stand up 3 or 4 times with Leen on his back. Hmmmm
3. Leen is not grabbing the headgear, that snap down is a technique... Dont dey show dat out der on da Island??
4. Leen choking out O'Connor with a legal move? More like JPO is being a Vag.
5. Leen kicking O'connor in the head, LOL Is this a ballet?
Bottom line. JPO got lucky at their first competition of the year.
#18
Blazed101 March 9 at 8:24am
I'm really not sure what you guys are complaining about. Leen wrestled a hard smart match. He was CLEARLY the better wrestler....w/out a doubt. Better defense, better offense, better WRESTLER. In my opinion for him to not win nationals he is going to have to be outwrestled. The only wrestlers I can see doing that are Burroughs or Gillespie. You can't sit back and expect to beat him...gotta go after him.
#17
Ref Is Horrible... March 9 at 3:24am
he had no control of this match. Ponderous
#16
Anonymous Coward March 9 at 12:32am
both wrestlers are awesome, Ref....not so much
which is a shame with this caliber of wrestling to have such a terrible official,hopefully we can see them battle again at nationals with a better ref
#15
HuskyHero March 9 at 12:28am
One things for sure. This Ref doesn't know his ass from his elbow. What a bozo just making up the rules as he goes along? Calls stalling on O'connor when he jumps right up to his feet with Leen pulling his headgear, chocking him on top, and kicking him repeatedly in the head. How could he not call some of these things? This ref also had no regard for JP's Safety. He looked right at JP's face at the end of the match when Leen had his leg torched all the way around and just waited to call the takedown on the edge.
#14
Ksherrill March 9 at 12:01am
what a farce of a match.
Leen knew exactly how to manipulate this awful ref, and he knew exactly what calls the ref would make. smart but i've lost considerable respect for him as a wrestler.
Not saying the outcome woud have been different with a decent ref, Leen still would've put the hurt on O'Connor, it just would have been closer and much easier to watch.
#13
Oconnor March 8 at 11:29pm
didn't come to wrestle this weekend. He does this at NCAA's in this weight he won't place.
#12
Funk Knee March 8 at 11:12pm
oconnor turns the knee right out anytime someone has any sort of angle on a single leg. I know it well because i used to do it. But it doesn't hurt, he babied out of that takedown.
#11
John O March 8 at 10:07pm
leen was grabbing the headgear the whole match, wtf?
#10
John L March 8 at 9:55pm
match a the week?
#9
Mike James March 8 at 9:51pm
spoke to soon lol, i posted that before jp got the stalling butwhat do you guys think about the microphone idea?
#8
Mike James March 8 at 9:49pm
tell me if this is dumb but i may have in idea hear. im im pretty sure the first time jp was on bottum and it seemed like every time he stood up leen put a leg in and a PD was called. tell me if im wrong but if leen has the leg in before he stands up which he did it should be a stalemate or even a stalling on jp. now going by if im correct would it not be a bad idea to shut the crown up or explain to the fans and whos ever watching by having the ref speak into a microhpone and say why its not a stalling? this goes for all situatiins like this, not just this 1 particular match
#7
Not Jim Lemley March 8 at 9:45pm
Watching this was torture! I am SO glad I chose to watch PIAAs this weekend. Every match was entertaining.
#6
Anonymous Coward March 8 at 9:39pm
how in the hell did he call stalling on oconnor if hes the one standing up wtf is he supposed to do stay on the mat and get turned??
#5
Anonymous Coward March 8 at 9:36pm
how can you boo the kid..he is a great kid just watch any of his interviews if you dont believe me
#4
Mevans March 8 at 9:34pm
What an ignorant crowd.
#3
Coach March 8 at 9:34pm
That ref is horrible! He calls both guys for stalling in the same position! The top guy has to return the bottom wrestler! As far as the O'Connor turning his knee out thats BS! Leen uses that technique and it's affective!
#2
Late Call March 8 at 9:22pm
If the ref had called PD earlier he would have saved himself some trouble. He looked right at it and ignored it until it had basically resolved itself in a takedown IMO.
#1
Turd Ferguson March 8 at 9:19pm
Maybe O'Connor should learn some real defense instead of bending his knee backwards and hoping the ref calls it
157lbs JP OConnor Harvard- vs. Jordan Leen Cornell-
157lbs JP OConnor Harvard- vs. Jordan Leen Cornell-
Leen didn't make O'Connor dive for the leg and torgue his knee. He did it to himself.
“As a former Harvard wrestler I am personally disgusted with the way JP wrestled, he needs to wrestle and stop whining to the ref. Jordan Leen came to wrestle and just layed the smack down on JP...even though he is a ginger...”
The mule style kick: Leen had 6 seconds to score the escape. He did what any wrestler would do if in a position where the top wrestler has only an ankle: he continued to try to move forward and use whatever means allowed to release the hold on the ankle. It is quite clear that he was working aggressively to kick the hand hold off the ankle. He wasn't looking back, he was working. That is Div. I wrestling, period. The ref made correct calls and there were other refs working the mat....I was there.
Learn the rules. If the top wrestler has the leg in BEFORE the bottom wrestler attempts to stand, then there is no stall if and when the bottom wrestler comes up to feet, which Oconnor did over and over again, because he knew that Leen often and usually scores back points when he is on top. AND, if the top man's arm hold is locked before the bottom man stands, same thing. Leen used this to bring Dragon back to the mat a few times in the previous match last weekend, and score back points. The camera angle does not show some of these finer points, but I was in the stands with a clear view from the other angle.
So, say what you will. Leen took it to Oconnor, won the match the way he should have and did it completely fair and square and the officiating in the finals for all ten weight classes was good. He won, not by one or two points. He won it clearly and cleanly. He was the aggressor. Oconnor took no meaningful shots the whole match. Leen took a number of shots and scored. Period.
Talk trash if you want, but for goodness sakes, learn the rules and take each match in context before running off at the keyboard. Oconnor got the finals with one or two points each match , including OT. Leen majored and/or pinned his way to the finals. And he hasn't peaked yet, this season.
“1st Pd.
Leen is all about the snap downs and re-shots. That misdirection low single was nasty though! OConnor could have given up the takedown and not been injured, he has the choice. Nothing dirty, just wrestling.
OConnor didn't seem to have an offensive answer.
2nd Pd.
Leen does need to do more on top than just tie up the head and arm. That was a TERRIBLE stalling call against OConnor. I thought Lenn should have been hit early and forced to either give up a point for an escape or for stalling.
College wrestling is a rough'n tough business...it isn't for everyone.
3rd Pd.
Leen is just taking it to OConnor on their feet. OConnor doesn't seem to have an offensive answer.
Please keep in mind, college wrestling is NOT a nice business, before criticizing attacking someone's weakness.”
When someone from NY gets beat, well...
Leen wrestled awesome, JPO didnt. Everything else is just wimp excuses.
hardass wrestling no doubt!
it should have been potentially dangerous multiple times.
Bending your own body for the sole purpose a ref will stop it ("potentially dangerous") and save you from giving up points is wrong, and we need new rules that address this situation.
What if a wrester kept his arm behind his back and moved his own hand up so his arm went past 90 everytime someone got ready to score? Guys should start the match in their stance with 1 hand behind their back...if you make a good double leg shot, then the guy just pushes his own hand up so his arm is past 90...ref stops it, pot. dangerous, no points. Its the same thing.
And I'm not faulting Oconner....I just think when a wrestler can put himself in an akward position just to avoid points, something is wrong with the system.
Bringing your opponent back to the mat is the responsibility of the offensive wrestler. If the defensive wrestler stands up it is the offensive wrestler who is in control and has to bring him back to the mat or it is STALLING! Doesn’t matter if you have a leg in or not. Add to that putting a figure 4 around the body, not once, but at least 3 times is an illegal hold (not a technical violation) and should have been called on 3 separate occasions in this match. The kick to the head was just ridiculous. O’Connor did not “put his head” there. Pushing off is one thing, winding up and kicking off, something else altogether.
Terrible officiating turned what should have been a good match into a farce… I’ve got to think the refs at the NCAA’s will be a bit more on the ball.
Sickles is a senior and IMO deserves a WC bid.
Good comments Buffett. Again, only thing I'll say on the second period is that Leen had legs in BEFORE JP came up. Leen loves to use legs to extend kids and power half them to their back, JP countered by coming up to his feet and getting the stalemate. It was a tough call on JP, but there is a solid rationale for the call.
Leen is all about the snap downs and re-shots. That misdirection low single was nasty though! OConnor could have given up the takedown and not been injured, he has the choice. Nothing dirty, just wrestling.
OConnor didn't seem to have an offensive answer.
2nd Pd.
Leen does need to do more on top than just tie up the head and arm. That was a TERRIBLE stalling call against OConnor. I thought Lenn should have been hit early and forced to either give up a point for an escape or for stalling.
College wrestling is a rough'n tough business...it isn't for everyone.
3rd Pd.
Leen is just taking it to OConnor on their feet. OConnor doesn't seem to have an offensive answer.
Please keep in mind, college wrestling is NOT a nice business, before criticizing attacking someone's weakness.
As for the kick -- I was right there -- he was obviously kicking for the grip to break it. He hit spot on the grip one time and caught a little face another, but I agree -- this isn't ballet, and bottom line -- two refs were right on it and didn't call anything.
Leen is peaking at the perfect time -- just like last year. Beyond all of his physical ability and skill, his aggressiveness, physicality, speed, flexibility, strength -- he is simply a beast mentally. He just refused to lose this one. If he does that in St. Louis, he could pull out another championship in perhaps the deepest weight class this year. Either guy is capable but, listen up any complainers -- JP might want to "take a page" from Leen to have a shot at a title.
Good luck to both guys in St. Louis.
If a guy hits you with a headlock and you can't breathe, the last thing you're worried about is a penalty point. There's a reason for that. These guys are competitors, they're not just gonna start tapping out from headlocks so they don't get scored on.
So if a guy hits you with a headlock, and you can't breathe, it's illegal? LMAO
Rule 5.5
Purely an interpretive rule. Im just happy the ref wasnt half a pansie, like most of the wimps making excuses for JPO. He got beat, thats all...
while in the rear-standing position is stalling.
5.10.6 - Defensive Position. Refusing to wrestle aggressively in the defensive
position is stalling. The contestant in the defensive position must initiate
action designed to escape or reverse the opponent. Failure to make
these attempts is stalling.
throat or neck that restricts breathing or circulation is illegal.
It may not have been Leen's intention, so it's perfectly fine...
includes any act that exceeds normal aggressiveness. It would include, but
is not limited to, a forceful slap to the head or face, gouging or poking the
eyes, a forceful application of a crossface, a forceful trip, or a forearm or
elbow used in a punishing way, such as on the spine or the back of the head
or neck. Points for unnecessary roughness shall be awarded in addition to
points earned.
Kicking out is fine, when it comes to striking the face with one's foot to stomp the opponent away...
I think when a defensive man purposely puts himself in a "potentially dangerous" situation, the ref should stop the match and award the points.
2. O'Connor put his own knee in those situations, not Leen, Idiots. Besides, It looks like JPO's knee was working great after that first period fake injury time fiasco. After all he did stand up 3 or 4 times with Leen on his back. Hmmmm
3. Leen is not grabbing the headgear, that snap down is a technique... Dont dey show dat out der on da Island??
4. Leen choking out O'Connor with a legal move? More like JPO is being a Vag.
5. Leen kicking O'connor in the head, LOL Is this a ballet?
Bottom line. JPO got lucky at their first competition of the year.
which is a shame with this caliber of wrestling to have such a terrible official,hopefully we can see them battle again at nationals with a better ref
Leen knew exactly how to manipulate this awful ref, and he knew exactly what calls the ref would make. smart but i've lost considerable respect for him as a wrestler.
Not saying the outcome woud have been different with a decent ref, Leen still would've put the hurt on O'Connor, it just would have been closer and much easier to watch.