A couple of other thoughts: first, for all those claiming one division is superior over the others. I believe, and have always believed that there should be one individual tournament. Divisions are great for team tournaments, but when it comes to individual wrestling, there are so many great champions that have come out o small-town USA, that there should be one and only one individual state championship. Of course there will always be upsets and tough breaks to complain about, but there should be only one man to stand on the top of those stairs for every weight class as the state champion.
Having been involved with wrestling since the early 1960s, and having wrestled 112 in high school , I watched this match with keen interest. Concerning myself, I competed in junior high school and early high school in Ohio, competing against such as the Milkovich Brothers, in the Maple Heights heydays. I later wrestled in Minnesota, (senior year of high school and college) and refereed junior high school, high school (regional and state levels) , college (conference championships and nationals), and at national AAU levels. I have also coached freestyle.
There have been a lot of swipes at referees in this posting, but there are few if any of you reading this who have any idea what it is like to work these tournaments, weekend after weekend, with screaming fans and coaches, in the midst of all the effort of trying to maintain the best vantage point for making a call, and protecting the wrestlers from injury. There have been times when I left a tournament exhausted and nearly deaf. Sometimes it would take three days to get my hearing back, when there were huge and enthusiastic crowds. And, yes, in every tournament it is virtually assured that at least one person is going to get a bad call that costs him in a championship or a chance at it. However, this match was not one of them.
The rules have been tweaked since the 1970s with a definite emphasis to reward aggression and penalize non-aggressive and defensive-only wrestlers. I can show you recent Olympians who lost gold medals simply because they took one step backward. This is the world stage, which is, in my opinion, what the best wrestlers are ultimately being trained and cultivated for -- a chance to represent the United States.
Having said this, for anyone who cares, this is how I would have called the match, not knowing either wrestler, and viewing the match with no sound/commentators :
First Period:
good solid attempts:
blue -- cross ankle pick (very close) , single leg (good penetration) , head shuck to single leg (great penetration/whizzer/backed off the mat)
weaker attempts:
barrel roll/firemans set up (poor penetration/blocked), under hook -cross trip (not enough penetration , head and heel (not enough penetration) snap downs
red --
weaker attempts: a few one-armed slaps at a leg
I would have warned him for stalling at the very least, the second time he backed off the mat, as he was almost constantly backing up at this point. The first time I watched the video, I was very frustrated with his nonaggression and was already looking for a stalling call the first time the wrestlers went off the mat. Perhaps the fact he was a returning state champion bought him a lot of grace. Not knowing he was the returning state champion, I would never have guessed it by his performance here.
Second Period:
blue -- single leg (great penetration/backed off the mat), single leg (great penetration/backed off the mat), head shuck to single leg (just missed)
weaker attempts: snap downs,cross ankle pick barrel roll/firemans set up (poor penetration/blocked), under hook -cross trip (not enough penetration)
countered single leg with a single leg at the edge/off mat
When he was being warned for stalling, there should already be one point awarded to blue.
Third Period:
I would have awarded another stalling point against red about halfway through the third period, as blue continues to lock up and back up with no convincing aggression. Blue has some convincing snap downs, but neither seems close to scoring points here. This is where I was at the first time I watched the video with no sound turned on, which is how I prefer to watch wrestling on computer. Later I go back and play the sound, to learn who the people are etc. .
The match would have ended 3-1 here had I been reffing, and I agree with others who said this never should have gone into overtime. However, in overtime, red took about a dozen nearly consecutive steps backward to bring on the final call. To all you, who said that the referees should have let the wrestlers decide it, I think they had already shown red far too much leniancy, and it was time to call the match. Remember, these are not heavyweights, and college only gets tougher. For those who want to be champions, aggression is a key element to winning.
Sam White is one the better defensive wrestlers in the nation. He's patient, a great sprawler, and has a good stance. He needs to take more shots. He only takes shots when they leave an opening, he needs to learn to pound the head, and create angles.
i think Clark deserved to win for pushing the action the whole match. Look how many shots he took compared to White. However the ref should've timed the stall call better, not in overtime. Also, you can't really say that Clark dominated white when he won 2-1...
In correct dumbass. Tessari is a freshman ranked in the nations top ten at a higher weight class than Sam started at. Tessari beat Mitcheff much worse than White did.
So to correct your comment you should say, "Tessari is almost as good as Sam White, but will surely be much better by his own senior year than Sam ever was, especially considering that Tessari will be a 4x state champ."
hands down clark...white lost, hopefully changing his no-future defense stall style. will never beat clark again unless 4 more ot's of waiting and waiting for a mistake. tessari 11 champ but not a clark yet
jamie may have kept the tempo up but u have to consider whites style of wrestling. white is a headlock guys and he wasnt stalling he was trying to snap him down and plus we are in the state finals and there shouldnt be a fast stalling call like that in overtime
Everytime I've watched White he has no offense and is just a staller.
Every match he wrestled in Fargo against a good wrestler he stalled.
Plus he sucks a ton of weight.
Jamie was the one that kept the tempo up and kept being agressive and sam just kept defending every shot that Clark took. White didnt do anything the whole match!
if you're gonna make the call then do so with a good amount of time left in the third period. This call, although deserved, was timed very poorly and this ref made a very bad decision.
Why make the call ? Ref's call won the match..let it go and the kids will sort it out in the ott..why should the ref's call pick the winner? the right call is the no call...eat the whistle like 9 out of 10 top notch refs would and let them wrestle....the ott would have sortted it out....
About the stalling call...
Although it is unfortunate that a state finals match had to end in a stalling call in overtime; however, let's not forget a few things things...
1. Before a point is given for stalling, a wrestler is warned first. Sam White was warned toward the end of the 2nd period; thus leading to a point for stalling in overtime
2.A few people, even the guy who was filming this saw the stall call comming from the first period (you can hear him say it). You can even hear people in the crowd calling that stall.
3. Sam White did not commit to a full shot in the first 3 periods (unless you count the reshot taken in the 2nd)
4.In the 3rd period, although Sam White wasn't necesarilly stalling; Jamie Clark was definitely way more aggressive, Sam White didn't do to well making himself look offensive.
5. Refs are very shaky on calling stalling calls in overtime, especially a state finals match, as a call this crucial decides a winner and caused controversy...
Was it a popular call¿? No
Was it the right call¿? Most likely
hmmmm, where do you get your stats? I think there is a kid from Mt Carmel who could smoke the state and has given DT a tough match at Nationals... and the 3rd rated kid from Missouri is a Stud too.
The ironic thing is in last year's 103 state final between these two - clark was hit with a stalling call in the last few seconds of the third period to send that match into ot. clark ended up losing on criteria because of the stall (i think i remember that right). How about the fact that wrestling in the 3 division championship matches at 112 were 4 of the top 5 wrestlers in the country at that weight class. Ohio wrestling is the best.
Though White wasn't offensive Clark was just trying to look busy in the end. I hate seeing a ref hand over a State Championship. Clark Realized he couldn't finish his shot so why not look busy and pushem around with head and double underhooks. BOOOO
just because white had a p on his back and clark had an e on his back doesn't matter. white got a stall call point last year on clark, so your point doesn't make any sense this year.
daddy_x..white had the entire match to try and win. You have to try to take shots in order to win. He didn't. never should have left it up to the ref. can't blame clark either. he made several shots, wasn't able to get points but at least tried. 2 great kids. clark even stated he was not looking for a stall call.
It's like winning a championship on a injury default. Clark hangs his medal up and in the back of his mind knows his championship is tainted! That has to suck!! I don't care who you are! Knowing him he would of rather win it outright! Mabey not !
both wreslers are great but i dissagree with the call in overtime just because white is not taking as many shots as clark does not mean he is stalling he worked snap downs not only spraalw and fo the crowd not booiing is because all the eds fans were happy about the shatty call
All I heard was booing from my section in the crowd. It will be interesting to see what kind of backlash this call gets.
It's a shame to see White lose that way when he cut to 112# for his team and probably could have won the title at the easier 119# class. Clark won a bracket that contained two returning state champs.
ive worked out nemerous times with both white and clark and this match was a great showcase of contrasting styles....jamies allways in your face beatin the crap out of you while sams more defensive. stalling call was good but too late not in OT ever
gay all clark did was push didnt even look to take good shots and the ref got preassured by all the gay eds fans win your titles by wrestling not crying
At least he handled the bad call with class. He didn't act like a five year old who just had his candy bar taken from him like Wade (chanel-Hwt) did the year before.
How can you say a stalling call is an unearned point? Stall calls are given when one athlete is either dominating action or the other is not looking to score.
Clearing ties is not looking to score, but clearing and attempting a shot is. I played the match out and was looking for a stall call most of the time. I was wondering if the ref would award the point in OT and was glad to see that he did. Than I replayed the end with the volume to gage the crowds reaction and from what I could hear the arena agreed with the call. If the majority of people didn%u2019t like it the place would have erupted with booing.
With that said I would have liked to see the call made in the third and allowed White to attempt score from behind.
The Right Call Just 2 Late March 3, 2008 at 10:54am
Palmer didn't decide the match - the kids did. Clark clearly was the aggressor. There were two refs on the mat, however the call should have been made in the third period. Clark clearly stated he was not looking for a stalling call and it was obvious when he was clearly trying to take shots. They didn't look like "fake shots" either. Both are great kids. Both are talented and now both share a state title. Clark showed great sportmanship and didn't jump around like an idiot after either.
Response To Response To Ht March 3, 2008 at 10:03am
True White may have been stalling for 2/3 of the match. But if they were going hit White with a 2nd stalling call, they should have done it in regulation. Making the call later in OT doesn't make it the right call, in my opinion.
you got palmer working the ref knowing this ref is an emotional infant with no brains what a joke ohsaa great job did the ref after the match head right to palmers house? he should be stripped of his bubble gum officiating card
agree. If you watch the video, it is clear in the overtime period that Clark had thrown in two underhooks and had no intention of either taking a shot or letting White take a shot. Why even have an overtime if the ref is going to make that kind of (bad) call. Worst call I've ever seen in a state final.
Good and justified call. Just because it is to decide a match, doesn't mean that the right call shouldn't be made. Clark pushed all of the action and deserved to win the match. No robbery here.
The problem with stalling is that it's an unearned point. I agree that Clark is more aggressive offensively. But does he deserve to win for that reason?
Just because that is "how white wrestles" doesn't mean he wasn't stalling. He was clearly stalling for 2/3 of the match. I don't like the call in overtime, but it was still the right thing.
white might not have been agressive on the legs but throughout the match he was looking for setups and trying not to take a bad shot. this is the way white wrestles. he was deffinitly robbed!!!!!!!!
Back to my previous comment--I wasn't trying to in any way disrespect Clark--I'm sure he's a class act. Clark was definitely wrestling more aggressively during regulation and was sportsmanlike. I completely agreed with the first stalling call against White. But in overtime, Clark wasn't doing anything other than pushing White back.
That stalling call was certainly the most dissatisfying thing for me to see as a spectator. Furthermore, the D1 finals referees were not consistent with their stalling calls the rest of the night. If they were going to call stalling against White in overtime, the referees should have been calling many more stalling calls the rest of the night. There were NUMEROUS examples of flagrant stalling in the D1 finals that the referees let slide by.
even Clark said he didn't want to win that way. Congrats to him and I applaud his sportsmanship. No one really wants to win likke that except maybe the Ed's coaches, fans, and the easily influenced ref. All you here is "what is he doing"..Ed's coaches might as well be on their knees begging. Pitiful. Disgusting. What the hell is OT for?
To Every1 Thats Says 'call' March 2, 2008 at 5:12pm
He was stalling the whole match. It should have been called sooner. So the called wasn't bad. Count the shots. Jamie shot at least 8-1/2 in the 1st period. There shoulda been a stalling point in the 1st period alone.
Clark needs to thank Mr Palmer for that win ... Jawing Stalling the whole match. I seen the ref look over at him several times. It should have been played out. Two Great wrestler as well as great kids
I thought this was a terrible call. When stalling was called in overtime, Clark was pushing White back but was really not making any aggressive offensive action. Clark wasn't taking shots, wasn't going after an ankle, etc, overtime. In my opinion, Clark pulled off a swindle--the referee unnecessarily interjected himself upon an otherwise even match.
All but one person I talked to at the event agreed with my opinion.
Watch the videos from the 2008 Ohio State Wrestling Championships (OHSAA) from the campus of Ohio State University in Columbus, OH here on Flowrestling.
F 112 D1 Jamie Clark, Lakewood St. Edward v Sam White, Massillon Perry
There have been a lot of swipes at referees in this posting, but there are few if any of you reading this who have any idea what it is like to work these tournaments, weekend after weekend, with screaming fans and coaches, in the midst of all the effort of trying to maintain the best vantage point for making a call, and protecting the wrestlers from injury. There have been times when I left a tournament exhausted and nearly deaf. Sometimes it would take three days to get my hearing back, when there were huge and enthusiastic crowds. And, yes, in every tournament it is virtually assured that at least one person is going to get a bad call that costs him in a championship or a chance at it. However, this match was not one of them.
The rules have been tweaked since the 1970s with a definite emphasis to reward aggression and penalize non-aggressive and defensive-only wrestlers. I can show you recent Olympians who lost gold medals simply because they took one step backward. This is the world stage, which is, in my opinion, what the best wrestlers are ultimately being trained and cultivated for -- a chance to represent the United States.
Having said this, for anyone who cares, this is how I would have called the match, not knowing either wrestler, and viewing the match with no sound/commentators :
First Period:
good solid attempts:
blue -- cross ankle pick (very close) , single leg (good penetration) , head shuck to single leg (great penetration/whizzer/backed off the mat)
weaker attempts:
barrel roll/firemans set up (poor penetration/blocked), under hook -cross trip (not enough penetration , head and heel (not enough penetration) snap downs
red --
weaker attempts: a few one-armed slaps at a leg
I would have warned him for stalling at the very least, the second time he backed off the mat, as he was almost constantly backing up at this point. The first time I watched the video, I was very frustrated with his nonaggression and was already looking for a stalling call the first time the wrestlers went off the mat. Perhaps the fact he was a returning state champion bought him a lot of grace. Not knowing he was the returning state champion, I would never have guessed it by his performance here.
Second Period:
blue -- single leg (great penetration/backed off the mat), single leg (great penetration/backed off the mat), head shuck to single leg (just missed)
weaker attempts: snap downs,cross ankle pick barrel roll/firemans set up (poor penetration/blocked), under hook -cross trip (not enough penetration)
countered single leg with a single leg at the edge/off mat
When he was being warned for stalling, there should already be one point awarded to blue.
Third Period:
I would have awarded another stalling point against red about halfway through the third period, as blue continues to lock up and back up with no convincing aggression. Blue has some convincing snap downs, but neither seems close to scoring points here. This is where I was at the first time I watched the video with no sound turned on, which is how I prefer to watch wrestling on computer. Later I go back and play the sound, to learn who the people are etc. .
The match would have ended 3-1 here had I been reffing, and I agree with others who said this never should have gone into overtime. However, in overtime, red took about a dozen nearly consecutive steps backward to bring on the final call. To all you, who said that the referees should have let the wrestlers decide it, I think they had already shown red far too much leniancy, and it was time to call the match. Remember, these are not heavyweights, and college only gets tougher. For those who want to be champions, aggression is a key element to winning.
So to correct your comment you should say, "Tessari is almost as good as Sam White, but will surely be much better by his own senior year than Sam ever was, especially considering that Tessari will be a 4x state champ."
The End.
Every match he wrestled in Fargo against a good wrestler he stalled.
Plus he sucks a ton of weight.
Although it is unfortunate that a state finals match had to end in a stalling call in overtime; however, let's not forget a few things things...
1. Before a point is given for stalling, a wrestler is warned first. Sam White was warned toward the end of the 2nd period; thus leading to a point for stalling in overtime
2.A few people, even the guy who was filming this saw the stall call comming from the first period (you can hear him say it). You can even hear people in the crowd calling that stall.
3. Sam White did not commit to a full shot in the first 3 periods (unless you count the reshot taken in the 2nd)
4.In the 3rd period, although Sam White wasn't necesarilly stalling; Jamie Clark was definitely way more aggressive, Sam White didn't do to well making himself look offensive.
5. Refs are very shaky on calling stalling calls in overtime, especially a state finals match, as a call this crucial decides a winner and caused controversy...
Was it a popular call¿? No
Was it the right call¿? Most likely
That was a good call.
It's a shame to see White lose that way when he cut to 112# for his team and probably could have won the title at the easier 119# class. Clark won a bracket that contained two returning state champs.
Clearing ties is not looking to score, but clearing and attempting a shot is. I played the match out and was looking for a stall call most of the time. I was wondering if the ref would award the point in OT and was glad to see that he did. Than I replayed the end with the volume to gage the crowds reaction and from what I could hear the arena agreed with the call. If the majority of people didn%u2019t like it the place would have erupted with booing.
With that said I would have liked to see the call made in the third and allowed White to attempt score from behind.
That stalling call was certainly the most dissatisfying thing for me to see as a spectator. Furthermore, the D1 finals referees were not consistent with their stalling calls the rest of the night. If they were going to call stalling against White in overtime, the referees should have been calling many more stalling calls the rest of the night. There were NUMEROUS examples of flagrant stalling in the D1 finals that the referees let slide by.
All but one person I talked to at the event agreed with my opinion.