good no call - head still inside without control of the legs beyond the opposing wrestlers ability to use them to counter
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Tough one.. what has to be decided is when he held him in criteria of a near fall did he have control enough to be awarded a takedown. I say no, so therefore no points are to be awarded.
There was no points there, if the guy in the blue singlet was completely flat on his back or broke his grip during that defensive tilt then it woulda been 2+2, but he held on and there was no control from before, so it's no point anywhere.
The only way to get that two is to be in Carver w/ 7-10 thousand fands frantic. TWOOOOO. but its not two.
Two for the takedown when the defending wrestler breaks his grip I counted to three before time expired. Which gives him 4 points.
I think he should get 4 at least 2, he worked that kid who supposedly had control into that position. He earned his points, anyone think the same?
no points.You can score a pin without getting a takedown, but you can't score back points without scoring the takedown.And, Zeb.....this is exactly how they teach NCAA refs, btw. They give an intro set of circumstances, like "neither wrestler has control when the clip starts." And they have to make snap second decisions on what took place and who scored. It doesn't matter what happened in the rest of the match. Points scored are based on what happened at that moment. They get tested and can work their way up the ladder...the best become the refs at the national tournment. Most of those guys are amazing.
No Control, but possibility of a neutral pin.I didn't know there was such a thing until I pinned someone in college with no takedown, just in a scrambling position, I was siiting on the guys stomach elevating the leg and he was rocking back and forth until he dropped his shoulders.
I say four, the kid stacks his opponent and holds him there with control for a count of 4 then they come out of it. two takedown, two nearfall.
I am still amazed that this sequence of events was able to take place. I can not believe that this was aloud to happen in the state finals. You are supposed to get it right in the state finals. Our kid did everything right. He dominated the match and a referee took his state championship away from him.
I saw the entire match and the more I see it the more I say, that was the Biggest Blown Call of the tournament. The wrestler attacking never gains control beyond reaction time; his head is still between the legs of the defensive wrestler in the Iranian, only one hand is around the legs; the other is around the waist briefly and posted on the man when the defensive wrestler rolls to his back. The defensive wrestler keeps a hand around the waist, and rolls back to his but before time expires, with the head of the attacking wrestler still between his legs, No Control...cant' get back points without control. Control must be gained beyond reaction time, before time expires. Any points given after the buzzer always appear SUSPECT.If there was a takedown it should have been signaled giving the man taken down an opportunity to improve his position, and avoid near fall points.BAD MECHANICS, BAD CALL, BAD OUT COME...
STATE FINALS MATCH 145 POUNDSblue-Waters -vs- red-Elicegui - Waters was winning 12-8 with 20 seconds to go and gets lifted on a double and locks in the crotch. Time runs out and the score is still 12-8. The referee then gives a takedown after time runs out and the score is 12-10. The referee then consults with the second referee who tells him to give red-Elicegui 2 for back points. The score is now 12-12. This means that while the two wrestlers were competing that the score was 12 to 8 and neither of them knew that there was a takedown or back points or any scoring for that matter. Had the referee given 2 points for the takedown blue-Waters could have let go of his lock and given up the takedown and won by a score of 12 to 10.
I think without verbally calling out and signaling the 2 takedown so the wrestlers and coaches can hear it, it is unfair to award back points. The wrestler and coach need to know if they need to make a change. Similar to letting a wrestler know he has the takedown so he can unlock his hands.
No control, No backpoints... I do agree that as always you need to see the entire match in order to get a feel and a reverse angle would help
listen, if the ref would of given two, the kid would of let go of the body lock and bellyed out no backpoints. So how are people saying 5 points, also it only would of been a 3 or 4 count IF the ref would have called the TD.so what was the final score?did that kid need a takedown to win?did he need back points to win?
You need to see the reverse angle to determine if he had control. If he had control, it would be a 2 for the TD and at least 3 back points.
Does he freeze the man on his back? Can is the bottom man fighting off his back? If you answer yes to either question, then I say you have a takedown. Then possibly a 2 count.I say there is established control for a takedown. Who says you have to be behind the man to be in control? Anytime I freeze you on your back I must be in control of the situation.
i say zero points also. Ref's don't want to make that judgement call. they want to see a clean takedown, the other kid showed no panic, looks calm locked around the waist and even returns right back to the same postion. locked around the waist with the kids head trapped between the legs. i agree with the offical that told Morgan Fore (I was told by an official (side note: a NC official) that if the offensive wrestler works up the body and lifts the defensive wrestlers feet off the mat thats a TD.) but at no point did he work up the body, he stayed on the ankle the whole time. one hand started to build up, touching the lower back for half a second, but he let it go completely and posted it on the mat.
If you want a call given start providing the entire match, a clip does not help us much. The entire match and how it was wresteled to this point plays into this. Just paste the link or video below, these clips do little in the lines of clarification.
wow tough call but no 2 and no near fall, never had established controll nor did the ref call out 2.