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What Have We Done to College Wrestling?!

Matt Valenti | Profile
March 10, 2009

Conference tournaments are over and it's time for the At-Large bids to be determined. Hours before the final wrestlers are announced, the flaws in the system are starting to show. Listed below are some of the problems regarding our current NCAA Qualifer system:

1. The "Fluff" Factor

How do we account for soft schedules -- wrestling tournaments and teams that are essentially "sure wins?" Winning percentage is 2/3 of the RPI calculation, so it weighs heavily in earning a good RPI. Winning percentage is also 1/3 of the overall criteria in determining a Gold, Silver or Bronze standard qualifying spot. So without a doubt, winning percentage is the most important factor in determining automatic qualifiers. Why should I set-up a tough schedule for my team when I can find a way to make sure that they all get 30 wins and therefore a qualifying spot? I can have a record of 33-7, have a great winning percentage, beat nobody of note, and still earn a qualifying spot. If you ask me, that isn't conducive to producing the best wrestlers at the NCAA tournament.

2. The Henning Affect

Here comes the problems with "At Large" bids. Part of the justification behind the change in qualifying systems was to ensure a top-ranked wrestler a berth at the NCAA tournament, even if he has a bad qualifying tournament -- a la Henning last year. Essentially, it protects wrestlers who are Gold or Silver standard, but don't finish in the automatic qualifiers of their conference tournament. So a #1 seed that goes 0-2 -- well he still gets to go to the NCAA tournament with an "At Large" bid. What the system does now is reward a wrestler who has a good season up to the conference tournament. It doesn't matter if he falls apart at his conference tournament and wrestles terribly. He's still going to the tournament because he did well during the year. If I went 0-2 at the EIWA tournament my senior year, I would be the first to tell you that I wouldn't deserve to be at the NCAA tournament. We want wrestlers that EARN the right to wrestle at the Big Show by performing in a conference tournament, not wrestlers that are GIVEN a second chance. If you get pinned in the third period because you got tired and careless, do you deserve to win just because you looked good in the first and second periods?! It's a bit of a simplified example, but it's right in line with the current thinking. Do we really want to reward an 0-2 wrestler? If you can't perform when it matters, you don't deserve to wrestle with the big boys.

3. The Buyout

This is the one where wrestlers throw matches on purpose for the betterment of the conference. Now this hasn't happen to my knowledge as of yet, but to be honest I'm considering making a pitch to the EIWA coaches for this to happen, just to prove a point. Automatic qualifiers are determined prior to the conference tournament. We know beforehand that if a Gold Standard wrestlers doesn't place, he's still going as an At Large bid. Are you going to tell me that if Brent Metcalf had the flu the weekend of Big 10's, decided to weigh-in and then not wrestle, that he wouldn't get a wildcard slot? (Remember this is hypothetical...I know that he would never do that, and that his coaches would never let a guy do that. Plus Brent would probably mentally break most strains of flu anyway). So next year I'm going to have my automatic qualifiers throw a match to place just outside of our assigned allotment, so that we get one extra qualifier for the EIWA. Now, this is an unrealistic scenario, but it's to prove a point and sort-of piggybacks on the Henning Affect. Why not throw a match if the kid isn't feeling 100%? All my kid has to do is forfeit -- it doesn't affect his record or seed and he still goes to the NCAA tournament. How are we going to stop this? The new qualifying system can't do it.

4. Injuries -- Before the Conference Tournament

So the automatic qualifiers are allocated. The Big 12 gets 5 qualifiers at 125 lbs -- if you make weight at the conference tournament you go to the NCAA tournament. Missouri's 125lber gets hurt in practice 3 days before the tournament starts, and the only wrestler they have left to put in the Big 12 tournament is their backup wrestler who has a 1-23 record on the year. Does he really still get to go to the NCAA tournament? He doesn't have to win a match to punch a ticket to St. Louis. All he has to do is show up and make weight. Or do we go back and re-allocate qualifiers at 125lbs? As far as I can tell, this didn't happen this year. But it is only a matter of time before we see it in action.

5. Injuries -- During the Conference Tournament

No. 1 seed Joe Smith-Gable-Sanderson is wrestling his first match at the MAC tournament and breaks his leg. He can't wrestle and has to forfeit out of the tournament. All of a sudden this Gold Standard wrestler doesn't place at the tournament. Despite going 0-2 and being injured, he's going to earn an At Large bid to the NCAA tournament. He's obviously not going to wrestle in the tournament, but he still gets a bid? Where is the remedy for this?

6 . Conference Results That Don't Exist...

The Big 10 is the wrestling powerhouse. What happens when the Big 10 (11) has 9 AQs (Automatic Qualifiers) at one weight? All of a sudden there's a need to wrestle out to 9th place? This is a bit more prevalent in bigger conferences like the Big 10 or EIWA that has more than 8 teams. How do you wrestle to a 9th place spot? What happens if only 7 of the wrestlers that earned AQ status place in the top 9? Do we really need to wrestle to a 9th, 10th, and 11th place? Is that even possible? Again, this is hypothetical, but with the strength of the Big 10, far from impossible.

7. True Wildcards

If we are going to look at true At Large bids, why not redo the RPI, winning percentage, and coaches' poll after the conference tournaments? Some wrestlers have great tournaments and may move up the in the ranking. Some may bump their winning percentage enough to earn a bid. RPI will most likely improve for those who perform at their respective tournament. As it stands, your conference tournament essentially counts for nothing unless you make the AQ numbers. This could help clarify some of the At Large situations, but at the very least it allows the ENTIRE season to matter. Correct me if I'm wrong...but shouldn't the Big 10 Tournament count for something?! If we're not going to look at conference results when we're looking at wildcards, we shouldn't look at it when we do NCAA seeding either. Because according to the new system, it doesn't really matter that much anyway.

8.  The Ivy League

Now this is a little more specific but I think it's also worth mentioning.  The NCAA permits wrestling teams to compete on 16 separate dates, not including the conference and NCAA tournaments.  A "date" is defined as competition on a specific day, such as a tournament or a dual (or multiple-duals on a day).  The Ivy League only allows 13 dates for the Ivy teams.  With winning percentage being such an important part of the system, we here are getting short changed.  On 3 dates, a team could have as many as 15 matches (3 tournaments) or as few as 3 matches (3 duals).  Either way the Ivy's are short-changed with the system.  I won't come out and claim that it would have a drastic affect, but I think it's fair to say the Ivy League teams have established themselves as legitimate NCAA tournament competitors.  Why should we suffer under the new qualifier system, because of our league's rules? 

9. The At Large Selection Committee

This process is supposed to be entirely objective when deciding on the last however many qualifying spots. How can this be objective when there are college coaches on the selection committee?! Lobbying for your wrestlers is frowned upon and is supposed to be eliminated. Yet when there are coaches on the committee, what wrestlers do you think they know best? Do they know who is injured and can't compete at the NCAA tournament? Who have they seen wrestle? Their own conference wrestlers. Objective opinions are difficult to come by in this regard. I would rather see a committee of coaches from each conference than a random mix of coaches, ADs and who-knows-what else mixed in. It's an unfair and biased panel if only because the coaches know the wrestlers better than the rest of the panel.

Now before everyone gets all up in arms about this and that, remember that some of these situations are hypothetical. I'm not saying that our old system wasn't flawed. It had it's problems for sure. But as it stands right now, we are changing the sport of wrestling, and not in a positive way. In case anyone didn't notice, the new system didn't really help the smaller conferences. In fact it hurt everyone except for the ACC and the MAC Championships. We are already fighting enough battles with wrestling on the West Coast just to keep wrestling alive...now all of sudden we strip the PAC 10 of 18 qualifiers. EIGHTEEN! I'm not really sure how that helps the sport of wrestling. I guess if we just let teams continue to die away because they have trouble competing, it leaves more spots for less teams right?? (Note: Sarcasm).

I don't have a solution but I do believe that we need to meet somewhere in the middle between the new and old systems. The historical data of the past took too long to change. The current mess encourages weak schedules and is kind to losing when winning matters most. Neither is right.

We'll see what today's At Large committee brings to the table...but my guess is that it won't be pretty.



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#31
ExColumbiaLion   March 13 at 3:26pm
Hey Matt,

Absolutely great points. They say "the road to hell was paved with good intentions" -- I think in an effort to improve a flawed system, the NCAA has merely introduced new flaws. I think we want to see the best kids in the nation at the time of the NCAA tournament. You, more than anybody here know that the idea is to peak for the qualifiers and the NCAAs. But, under this new system, kids are going who aren't at their best -- either mentally or physically, while others are staying home at a time when they are peaking.
Best examples I can think of are two Columbia boys who you were classy enough not to mention -- but I will. How do you have a kid like Lou Miller place 3rd at EIWAs and not go, while the kid who places 5th at the same weight (197) from American gets an at-large bid? Maybe even worse, how does Derek Sickles who is peaking and almost knocked off O'Conner in the EIWA quarters (losing in SV) not get a bid? The EIWA is sending only 4 guys at 157 (Leen, O'Conner, Winston, and Dragon -- all top ranked kids with Leen a returning champ) while the Big Ten is sending 8. Poeta is ranked #1 but he lost to Leen in the finals last year, and all the rest are ranked lower than the EIWA guys -- one of them going 2 and out at the Big Ten Tournament? EIWA is clearly stronger at 157 but sending half the kids as Big Ten. It's simply incomprehensible. i think the NCAA has "steered guardrail to guardrail" and overly devalued qualifying tournament performance.
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#30
Don Martin   March 12 at 10:26pm
This is very well thought out. However, the current system is better than the old. Good points though.
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#29
Bwh05   March 12 at 1:39pm
Can someone explain to me how the ACC merits 18 more bids than last year? Is the conference 2.5X better than it was???? This whole thing is ridiculous. It's not like they've done anything to deserve it.
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#28
Massachusetts   March 12 at 1:17pm
Matt,

You were awesome in Lord of the Rings!
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#27
Jim Harshaw   March 12 at 8:56am
Excellent points. These are all points that need to be discussed. It is improvement but not perfect.
In the old system wrestlers could throw a match to give the conference another qualifier (Metcalf would still have gotten a wildcard).
As for going 0-2 you mention that a wrestler shouldn't go. You're right except in the case where you lose to two highly ranked opponents... does that mean you are not one of the best in the nation? Not necessarily. If you went 0-2 at EIWA's your sr. year you would still have been a man-eater and deserved to go to NCAA's.
As for injured wrestlers qualifying, that happened in the past too. Make it to the semi's or finals in a conference, get hurt and default out... still go to NCAA's.
As for the fact that a lot of wins makes your RPI high, if you wrestle a tough schedule then your RPI is higher than the same wrestler wrestling a weak schedule.
As for the Ivy's being short-changed, you're right. That is a decision that the conference makes. However, the NCAA rules shouldn't change to meet the needs of a conference. Since this is a prior rule then it makes for a tough situation.
As for the selection committee, the coach has to leave when it comes to their own kids. It seems to me that we should have more coaches (the guys with their boots on the ground) involved. However, I agree that they shouldn't be able to influence the decisions for their wrestlers or even their conference.
As for the other points, I think there are some decisions to make. There are issues that simply could not be foreseen and I think you've identified some. I know that the committee will be looking at this and making some changes.
Keep the discussion going....
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#26
Mack Reiter   March 11 at 10:54pm
Excellent blog Matt. We at Minnesota have talked a lot about some of the things you brought up. In fact the night before the Big 10 Tournament one of our coaches talked about your 3rd point happening. Again though very well written and I agree with a lot of what you talked about.
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#25
Brett Wheelan   March 11 at 10:41pm
Great stuff Matt! Agree!
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#24
Anonymous Coward   March 11 at 7:49pm
I agree 100% with kids who go 0-2 at conference tournaments not being able to receive a bid. I believe tOSU got 2 maybe 3 bids to guys who did not win a match at Big 10s. I mean at least give the bids to someone who placed in the tournament.
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#23
What The Duece?   March 11 at 7:08pm
Valenti I will give you $20 to change ur profile pic. Seriously.

Also, Yates is a monster and deserved the at large bid.
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#22
Coincidence?   March 11 at 5:42pm
What about when someone wins their first match of the conference tournament and then loses and then defaults to 6th? Should this be rewarded with an at-large bid? Or should the bid go to someone who finished one spot from qualifying? Pretty sure Yates from VTech did this. Coincidence that an ACC coach is on the selection committee??
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#21
T Goat   March 11 at 3:45pm
Dude, lighten up. A lot of your points are very theoretical. The NCAA is trying. Personally, I think it's much better than coach voting OR pure Win%.
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#20
Nellie125   March 11 at 3:37pm
I agree with gochips. All weight classes are not equal and therefore should not all get 33 qualifiers to the NCAA's. I really good kid at 141 could stay home while a hwt with a .500 record could go just because he's the only one they had left to fill the 33rd spot. Also, a highly ranked kid could have been injured most of the year while another kid wrestled tough all year and earned a qualifier for the conference. The highly ranked kid comes back just in time for the conference tournament and takes the automatic bid. Hopefully the kid still gets a wildcard berth, but who knows. All in all I think it's a step in the right direction. The spots lost by the Pac 10 is toublesome.
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#19
Herb Taylor   March 11 at 3:22pm
Matt-

Great article, with many valid and important points, however, I can't say I agree entirely. In particular, the RPI calculation - as I understand it - is comprised of the following formula:
( 0.25 * Wrestlers winning %) + (0.5 * Opponents winning %) + (0.25 * Opponents-Opponents winning %)
That formulation of the RPI, if correct, provides strong weighting for the strength of your schedule. The wrestlers OWN winning % only contributes 25% of his RPI. To gain a high RPI you not only have to do well against wrestlers with high winning % - but your opponents can't be scheduling chumps either - because the final 0.25 is the opponents or your opponents winning percentage. There simply are not enough "Fish Universities" to orchestrate an artificially high RPI.
I would be interested in seeing an example of someone orchestrating a 30 win season by crafting a weak schedule. There are definitely a few schools with very weak schedules but they eventually have to surface against real competition. On NWCA website I just scrolled through the D1 schools I deemed to be at or near the bottom and looked for guys with artificially high winning percentages. There are a few - unfortunately, they are feasting on non D1 schools - and when you look at just their D1 records they are more down to earth. Remember winning percentage and RPI are based only on D1 competition. Again, there is very little room to hide in D1 wrestling.
Your point about Ivy schedule date limits is very valid and will need to be addressed. Those limits, however, have always been an issue for the top IVY's who have strived to be nationally competitive. Your own schedule at UPenn was always highly competitive as I recall. My observation is that as a group the Ivy's have done an outstanding job of making the best with their schedule dates.
Another strong point you made is the situation where the wrestler earning the AQ for his conference is injured and now a wrestler with a losing record could waltz in. That happened in the old system a few times I might point out - but the solution now should be that the conference only keeps their AQ if the wrestler earning it competes in the tournament.
As for the ACC's significant gain in qualifiers time will tell whether that was an anomaly or an indication of the improvement in the conference. Every school contributed at least two AQ's by maintaining season long ranking and upgraded schedules. Any conference which believes they can help their wrestlers by padding their schedules is kidding themselves.
A lot has been made of the fact that Hudson had a high RPI but a much lower ranking. The reason was that he wrestled 17 matches against qualifiers - his opponents had an aggregate 70% winning percentage fairly late in the year and themselves had tough competition (i.e. Nebraska, Ok, Missouri, Iowa, Midlands, etc)
Keep up the great work and we need guys like you to be involved in identifying and eliminating the shortcomings of the system.
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#18
Sean Dunn   March 11 at 3:05pm
They should have a system that gives a rating once everyone is connected from competition. Like Sagrin (sp?) ratings. Or at least an RPI.

It should be very easy to get a fair ranking. I do not like the conference thing 8 from the conference....how does that make sense???. Seems a little odd to me. They should go to a 2 tournament format. Ind and team. And the team is a duel tournament. Those are really cool.
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#17
Martin Floreani   March 11 at 11:36am
Wildcards announced today!!!!

The system has flaws as Matt has pointed out but I think it is a step in the right direction. Isnt there a saying "the enemy of improvement is perfection"

I like this system better because every match counts. There is no greater excitement at a tournament when you know this up and coming kid might be punching his ticket to nationals with a big upset right here and now.
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#16
I Like It   March 11 at 11:24am
"Plus Brent would probably mentally break most strains of flu anyway"

Very funny.
As for the injured guys, i feel like they would replace them with an alternate at that weight, if that guy is too injured to compete.
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#15
PU Wrestler   March 11 at 11:21am
Regarding #1: Coaches realize the point is for their wrestlers to succeed at the NCAA tournament, not just to qualify. Success requires wrestling the best competition during the season. The best programs will continue to wrestle tough schedules, have the most success at NCAA's, and consequently be able to attract the best talent. So what of the "fluff" factor? Of course you don't have to wrestle the best competition every match. The best strategy might be to include some weak teams in your schedule to pad your record and get a rest.
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#14
Anonymous Coward   March 11 at 11:06am
points 1 and 2 are great examples of the american education system and america in general. lets over-inflate what we actually do (get a good record with easier competition) and reward those that aren't as deserving (the "henning effect").
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#13
John Ogden   March 11 at 10:43am
go to college of NJ wrestling all americans, for some reason this link loses something when I post it.. sorry

http://www.tcnjathletics.com/index.aspx?tab=wrestling&path=wres
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#12
John Ogden   March 11 at 10:33am
#11
John Ogden   March 11 at 10:31am
OK, you want to cover all the bases.... I got one the NCAA hasen't covered in decades, they used to cover it but no longer... You want to talk true champions, pure wrestlers, ok lets talk... Is a USA collegiate Div 1A winner the best in the country at his weight class? I say it may not be so, big words? Tom Martucci "81" and Gene Barber "73" from Trenton State College at Division 3, were invited to the 1A Tourny because that was SOP back then, and guess what, they won the whole ball of wax at Div 1... Maybe there should be one follow up Tourney, and coaches, that would be an excellent recruiting oportunity as well... hahaha ref http://www.tcnjathletics.com/documents/2008/11/25/WrestlingAll-AmericansList.pdf
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#10
Anonymous Coward   March 11 at 10:13am
Does anyone know when the wildcards are going to be announced? What time?
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#9
Joe Delia   March 11 at 10:02am
Matt, Great Article. It'll be interesting to see how they adjust things. Also, by throwing a match for the betterment of the conference aren't you in-turn lowering your seed at the NCAAs? Maybe i'm wrong here, just asking.
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#8
Anonymous Coward   March 11 at 9:49am
Jason Bryant usually comes in to explain away the negatives of the new system. I would like to hear his take on this blog.
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#7
GoChips   March 11 at 9:43am
How many at large bids remain per weight class? 33 wrestlers at NCAA per weight class. So, say there are 5 bids left at 125 and 133, but only 3 legitimate qualifiers at 125 and let's say 7 qualifiers at 133. Somebody is staying home while weaker wrestler at different weight class goes to NCAAs. Just an example.
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#6
Former College Wrestler   March 11 at 9:08am
Great insight - never would have thought of the scenarios you present here. No system is perfect, and hopefully we can work out the kinks as we go. Thanks for the blog.
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#5
Esky   March 11 at 8:45am
Interesting article. The point about the PAC-10 qualifiers was disturbing. A long time ago, wasn't there more than 33 entries into each weight class? Why not expand slots and add an extra round of wrestling with byes to the top 8-12 wrestlers. (A fair reward for a great season or conference tournament.) Limiting spots to smaller conferences will eventually hurt the sport. Thanks for your ideas.
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#4
Christian Pyles   March 11 at 5:41am
Interesting stuff, a bit troublesome. Well written though, thanks Matt.
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#3
Anonymous Coward   March 11 at 1:06am
a lot of great points made. theres obviously gonna be some uphappy people no matter what system you use. I though the rpi was based a little more on beating quality opponents, but I could be wrong. They should have threw in the stipulation that if you qualifying wrestler for the conference doesnt wrestle then one of the bids is taken away. Its just a common sense thing im suprised they didnt do it in advance.
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#2
William Danforth   March 11 at 12:52am
Very nice article. You bring up some interesting points. The first being the RPI calculation. Over time this can be adjusted to minimize the fluff factor. I don't have a problem with number 2. There does not seem to be any incentive for the Buyout/Sandbag #3. Your forth point only applies to one conference but could have happened this year. Common sense by the committee should prevent the fifth situation. The committee should consider the results from conference tournaments when selecting wild cards. No getting around #8.

Anxiously waiting the wild card list. Thanks again for your points of view.
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#1
Anonymous Coward   March 11 at 12:43am
Obviously it has flaws, but it makes more sense to me than allocating the number of qualifiers based on average number of people making it to the round of 12 from the previous 4 years (I think this is how it used to be done..something like this). At least this way the current year's results have an effect on qualifying.

You are right though that the RPI needs to be more based on a quality win system than just a winning percentage.
The fact that 5 wrestlers from a single weight can gain automatic bids in the big 12 says more about the need for parity among conferences than a flaw with the system of awarding bids...We need some of the smaller conferences to get better recruits.
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