Home » Wire » Blogs » Matt.valenti

Wrestling Blogs - Matt Valenti


« older | newer »

Are the Winds Blowing?

Matt Valenti | Profile
August 22, 2008

First and foremost, congratulations to Henry Cejudo on his inspiring performance in Beijing. He has dedicated his heart and soul to the goal that he just accomplished, and it showed in his wrestling. A gold undoubtedly well-deserved.

Congrats also go out to Adam Wheeler and Randi Miller for representing with honor and pride, and for bringing back the hardware.

As I watched these three wrestle over the past week I couldn't help but feel my sense of pride in US wrestling as I yelled at my computer like a fool. As those hands were raised, one in Greco, one in women's Free and one triumphantly in men's Free, I had chills and I was pumped. Yet somehow now that it is all said and done, there is a sour feeling in my mouth. I know that I'm not alone, and I'm not going to be the first to point this out. It doesn't take an Ivy degree to see this one...

U.S. wrestling needs to change.

I am not going to venture the reasons why or how at this point because at the moment I'm an outsider looking in. No one person is to blame, nor is any organization, style, or training method. I can't put my finger on it and maybe that is because I'm not in the mix, but it doesn't seem to me that anyone else has put their finger on it just yet either. I don't know that anything is broken, but something needs to be fixed.

Medals at the Olympic level are not easy to attain, but the United States has enough wrestling talent that we should be doing better than one medal in each style (Women, Greco, Free). Why aren't we doing better?

I've heard and seen the arguments, some that I agree with and some that I don't, but I still don't think that any one thing is causing us to lag behind internationally. Some blame folkstyle wrestling for our falter, some blame the new freestyle rules. The new clinch, collegiate riding time, weight-cutting, coaching, clubs, colleges, wrestlers, MMA, excitement. All of these have been suggested. Does anyone really think that a single one of these factors is to blame? Is it a combination of all of them?

Maybe yes, maybe no, but here is something else that is obvious - RUSSIA IS DOING SOMETHING RIGHT! They have found ways to medal in all styles, whether it's a first time Olympian or Buvaisar Satiev. The Russians have always been great but they have not always been this dominant.

To me this dispels the concept that international wrestlers do better in freestyle and greco because they wrestle it their whole lives. We have been competitive in the past, and the general concept of these styles hasn't changed. The rules have some but realistically all scoring is pretty much the same. Sure the times have changed and yes the clinch is different but the core, fundamental styles still hold. So what are the Russians doing that we aren't?

To be honest, I don't know.

In my opinion, here is the first step: GET CEREBRAL. Time to get smart. We, as a country, need to learn. We need to be sponges for the next 3 years. It's a strange concept sometimes, but our wrestling IQ needs to increase. Our governing body needs to learn, our coaches need to learn, our wrestlers need to learn, and our fans need to learn. It's time to adjust to the wrestling world around us, not try to make it adjust to us.

That is the first piece of the puzzle...



Discuss about Are the Winds Blowing? by Matt Valenti on The Word

Enter Your Name

or Login Here (can attach videos to post)
Please enter this code to post reply. Login to skip Captcha.
captcha img

or Advance Reply (can attach video)

More topics on this blog:

+ Start new topic related to this blog
 
Reid Worley August 27 at 10:26am.
Did I see somewhere that you were planning on wrestling in 2012???
 
Zeke August 27 at 9:45am.
Something does have to change. However, I chalked this disappointment to several factors.

1) Youthful team with not much INTERNATIONAL experience.
2) The constant rule changes.
3) Not having wrestlers strive to be on multiple Olympic teams.
The third reason is the biggest. Imagine if Cael Sanderson had wrestled one maybe two more Olympic cycles? That is a proven guy who you can count to win you a medal. We are getting way too many first time Olympians. The Russias do have wrestlers that stay around a long time garnering experience over the years.
 
Fan In NYC August 26 at 6:25pm.
I'd like to pick up on a point Mafia makes and get a reaction regarding the effect on freestyle technique of mostly wrestling folkstyle:

Freestyle at the international level has become so different from folkstyle that the adjustment may simply be too great for our athletes to make and be successul.
It's not just par terre. Incidentally, I don't think anyone of our guys (except for Cejudo and Askren against the Hungarian) scored a single point from par terre, or in transition from the feet to par terre.
It's also that our guys didn't show the skills on the feet, which you would think would be the easiest adjustment. Is that because there's less emphasis on standing technique in folkstyle because of the two periods on the mat, unlike in freestyle, where you're right back on your feet throughout the entire match, unless you're actively generating exposure points.
 
Hey Rick Addante August 26 at 5:05pm.
just ask martin for a blog because every blog i read it gets old when i see you trying to outdo the actual blogger who is good enough to have their own blog. maybe martin will give you one to shut you up.
 
Drfjnbb August 26 at 4:41pm.
henry cejudo is a great example, if you wanna win the olympics train freestyle/greco right out of high school. if you wanna win the ncaas go to college. simple, right? also, henry is the future wrestling style, everything you want in a wrestler flexibilty, quickness, strength, and great conditioning
 
Que?? August 26 at 2:28pm.
hahah. thanks for throwing out the: "It doesn't take an Ivy degree to see this one." well, it doesnt take an ivy league education to summarize this long blog.

we neeed change. how? dont know. russians are good, what are they doing?
 
BA August 26 at 12:05pm.
I think it is the lack of preperation in a large percentage of our senior level athletes, these guys are coaching and training at the same time. They seem to just be focused right before us nationals or right before trials. 3/4's of the year they are concerned about college teams. So when it comes down to international competition they are not prepared enough. All these young guys that are competeting after college have plenty of time to coach after they stop competeting.
 
Coach Neely August 25 at 10:37pm.
Great discussion here. I think it boils down to the lack of a strong support system--it being our declining performance overseas as evidenced most recently by the Beijng Games. That's not really constructive; it just is. We need more Joe Williams types (talent in it for the long haul), but that will continue to be the exception rather than the rule because of the lack of support, financial and otherwise. How about a little respect for this country's hardest-working athletes? I do think the Olympic Training Center in Colorado is a positive. Henry Cejudo and what he represents might very well be "the future." I'm not convinced that we need to substitute Olympic-style wrestling for our folkstyle. That could turn out to be a big mistake, especially with the whimsical organization that keeps changing the rules (and doing a horrible job). I have heard great wrestlers talk about the NCAA DI Wrestling Championships as the premiere wrestling event and that nothing compares. College wrestling is still in trouble, but that NCAA tournament is the best thing going. Iowa's resurgence this past season was just what our sport needed. But I am meandering now, so I'll stop.
 
RR August 25 at 9:41pm.
Imagine if the "singular focus" in the Iowa, OK State, Iowa State, and Ohio State (etc.) wrestling rooms was on freestyle wrestling, with people like the Brands brothers and John Smith doing the training, and wrestlers like Escobedo, Scott, Metcalf, Askren, etc., developing under them--for five full years of competition. You can't say the US wouldn't be taking home more hardware from the Worlds and Olympics if that was the case. I'm not saying it will ever happen, or even that I want it to happen, because I love folkstyle. But the difference in the development of US freestyle would be huge. Even if we never sent a wrestler over the age of 23 to the Olympics, we'd still come away with lots of gold. Smith said so himself when asked about it in Fargo.
 
Mafia August 25 at 8:54pm.
I watched nearly all of the Olympic matches in Men's Greco, Freestyle, and Women's Freestyle; I also attended the US Olympic trials, and watched the coverage of the US and Russian nationals on TV.

I have been thinking about our performances at nationals, the trials, and the Olympics as compared to what I have seen with Russia and other international teams.
"Athleticism"
I think one perspective to look at is raw athleticism. It became clear to me after watching a lot of international wrestlers that they are on average just better "raw" athletes than us. Other countries seem to be superior in flexibility and explosive power, two components that are heavily favored under the new rules; conditioning not so much. I think we lose a lot of our "raw" athletic talent to football, baseball, and basketball. Why you ask? It pays well, and garnishes a lot of notoriety. Many of our most athletic wrestling talents are leaving for other sports - Stephen Neal (World Champ vs Super Bowl Champ), Mo Lawal (starting MMA), Johnny Hendricks (starting MMA), Brock Lesnar (Pro wrestling & MMA), Dan Henderson MMA, Matt Lindland MMA, even Mocco and Conrad had try outs with some NFL teams; The money and the fame draws in the best professional athletes; that's what these other countries are providing.
"Technique"
I think the many years of wrestling folk style does have an affect on our performance. Why you say? I think simply because of the concept of back exposure in every position on the mat; This is something that a lifetime of wrestling folk style can never prepare you for, and I think it affects your comfort zone when performing all your go to technique; Henry focus on this from day one, and I think its why he is a champion now... not wrestling folk style in college helped him. Finally, angles.. it appeared we were out angled in every match I watch excluding Henry... the world champ Schwab wrestled first round gave him a clinic on getting angles, of course he did to almost everyone else in the tournament.
"Singular focus"
I think because we do not pay our wrestling athletes it is very difficult for them to have singular purpose in life, to allow wrestling to be the single thing that gets them up in the morning and puts them to sleep at night; when you listen to any of our great wrestlers of the past from Smith to Gable to Kemp to Baumgartner to Henson to Gruenwald to Hall they all had singular focus; wrestling consumed them; I believe there is a very small percentage of our US athletes that have true singular focus and passion about the sport; living in America presents a lot of distractions both positive and negative and a lot of out athletes fall prey to them.
 
Always enjoy reading your insight Matt.

Perhaps the USA needs to stop being dreamers and start being realist? I hate saying that, but maybe that's what we need. As a fan myself, I'd rather see the Adam Wheelers, the kid who wasn't all that great of a high school wrestler, refusing to give up on his dreams of being a great wrestler and despite all odds winning a Bronze medal at the Olympics and seeing that realization of that dream come true. Seems to me that we have a lot of guys/gals on our Olympic teams who fit comparable profiles.
Our Olympic coaches and teams seem to seek out guys who have the heart and desire to be Olympic champions. In Russia do they do that? Not from what I read. In Russia, they grab who they know who's going to win and if he doesn't have the heart and desire to be an Olympic medalist at first, they flash a little $$, propoganda and he soon does.
Maybe that's what they United States needs if winning is so important. Maybe they need to go grab Greg Jones wherever he's at and offer him financial gains and popularity status. Personally, I'd rather see guys like Andy Hrovat and Adam Wheeler bust their asses day in and day out in fixated goal oriented matter, to achieve their ultimate dreams of being an Olympian, but then again that's just me.
Perhaps Matt, our answer lies no further than Henry Cejudo. Maybe we need to be sending many more kids straight up to Northern Michigan, or Colorado Springs to skip out on the NCAA to focus strichtly on international wrestling.
I agree with what you said about getting Cerebral. That is an excellent point. We need to be learning the techniques and styles that are working. It seems that we've relied too heavily on our superior conditioning and strength and other countries have found ways to counter and out wrestle us. We have got to improve on our technique.
 
Rick Addante August 25 at 1:51am.
In an ironic twist, it seems from Duffy's point that the Russians Excel because their wrestling system is based upon a principle analogous to capitalism, rewards for success, and competition for great funding. While the American wrestling system seems to be suffering because it may have adopted a more socialistic philosophy in comparison. Russians are better b/c they are Pros who get Paid Well for their top level work, while the Americans dont compete as well because we don't have the same incentives and market forces as true 'amateurs' sharing in low profits of the sports income to survive, while the Ruskies actually profit and make a living as "professionals".

Ironic, given our two countries' inverse socio-political-economic approaches to almost everything else. Interesting....
 
Donald Duffy August 24 at 2:19pm.
The Russians are the best at wrestling because their athletes are professionals. If you are a Russian and you are pursuing your dream to be the best, you are paid for it, you are supported with the best facilities, you don't have to worry about where your next pay check is coming from. It is a business. And as a business, during the serious training periods, you are sequestered in training camp, you are curfewed at specific hours; you are basically under contract. Our athletes have top-notch coaching, and the American coaches have all the technique and the savvy that the Russians have. But our coaches don't have the power to sequester our athletes and focus them in the same way that the Russians can. I would be very surprised to find out that the Russians, when they are at international competitions, would be allowed to go out on the town, go to Karaoke, go shopping and such. They're all about training, training, and focus all the way to the medal stand.

If we treated our wrestling like a business and we provided the resources like the Russian government does, we would be churning out champions at every World Championship, yearly. It has nothing to do with too much "folkstyle" or not enough "freestyle", etc.,....wrestling is wrestling...it's the focus part. Saitiev and those guys make their living wrestling. They don't have a business like a T.C. Dantzler who is out there hustling and making a living for his family and training at the same time. The Russians make their living wrestling.
The whole "amateur" quality of the Olympics is just a big joke. There are no "amateur" wrestlers in Russia, there are no "amateur" gymnasts in Russia, China in many of our competing countries. (our olympic bastketball either) The reason why Russia is the best in wrestling is because their athletes are professionals and they are given every possible resource to succeed;, i.e. facilities, coaching, a way to make a nice living.
 
Valenti 2012? August 24 at 10:16am.
Did I miss something Valenti never stated he's going for gold in 12 did he?
 
Rick August 24 at 9:39am.
I would first like to say for the first time in years the rules that change every year to promote action went in the opposite direction. In Greco every match that I watched had two wrestlers stalling on their feet to go parteer. I didnt watch much of any style because of this. In the Mocco match he lost the other wrestler didnt try one throw or leg attack for 3 periods. Also what do we do for our athletes in America so that they can afford to train? We do not send the best at any one sport in this country only the best with the proper funding. How many NCAA champions even give training for the Olympics a try?
 
Gobigred August 24 at 8:04am.
Here's something to chew on. 7 returning world champions failed to win gold medals. With that being said, it also takes a little bit of luck. We sometimes forget that this is man's oldest and toughest sport. Let's also remember that wrestling in some of these stellar countries is like Basketball in America. I'm sure every wrestler who competed in Beijing and didn't reach their goals are devastated! Sure we'd like to have seen more hardware, but, it is what it is and all these comments are pointless. One final thought, the men and woman who wrestled were there, we were not. They have to live with this for the rest of their lives, as for all of us, we will have moved on in November.
 
Trey Hamilton August 23 at 10:09pm.
We will never be able to narrow it down to just one thing. It is probably due to a lot of factors: experience, the new format, USAW, the pollution in Bejing, and most of the guys just seem to be in a funk. We cant just look at one problem and try to fix it, but rather step back and look at the big picture and adjust what works and what doesn't.
 
RAD August 23 at 9:18pm.
The problem is I would not be suprised to see Brands head back to Iowa and get ready for a big time college position in 2009-10 season.
 
Rick Addante August 23 at 9:04pm.
I agree, my own arm is pretty sore from all of my monday morning quarterbacking.
I agree with directly below this post, that the unique rules of freestyle adds randomness, and does not benefit most people. Though I thought that we do have a best of 3 qualifying series of matches in the trials (but im not sure...). Perhaps our discussions here are simply reflecting the discussions we should have had back when many favorites in the trials did not win. Who knows. But I do sleep well at night knowing that Brands will keep things in the right directions, along with the other excellent coaches.
 
Just Throwing It Out There August 23 at 8:52pm.
watching the olympic freestyle and the little other freestyle that i have watched, i think that the rules in freestyle,such as winning periods instead of the whole match, and the clinch position, add randomness to the match. randomness will tend to favor the weaker athlete. i will hazard a guess that this is why there were so many upsets in the olympic trials. if there was a different way to qualify for the team, such as possibly having the top N in each weight wrestle multiple times to determine who makes the team, then i think we would be better harvesting the wrestling talent of our country. also, depending on weather conditions such as heat and humidity, what works to cut weight here may not work in other places in the world. i think that not understanding this hurt not just America's wrestling, but also our teams in other sports that have weight classes (think about the boxer who collapsed while cutting weight).

View all Posts →
Email Friend Email to Friend

No Tags Yet.


3.3/5 (9 votes cast)