Wrestling Blogs - Ben Askren

I agree kids in middle school or highschool should have that PD call but college wrestlers should know these painful moves and make sure they can restrain from getting put into them. I believe that is kind of a way of cheating and getting out of a pinning move. I just think it is just messed up.

The PD call should stay BUT should be used for positions that the defensive wrestler CANNOT get out of even if he tries to submit. And example would be the often seen power half nelson while the top wrestler is riding parrallel with both legs in. If the top guy is brutally strong, he can crank and the bottom guy cannot submit and turn over under these circumstances.

What I hate (and agree with Ben on ) is the deep single leg where the top guy turns outward to grab an ankle, stopping the offensive wrestler from finishing and the match is stopped for PD. It is different if the guy with the leg puts the defensive wrestler into a position from which he cannot turn and give up points to get out of the move.
Our local coach gets frustrated and reminds us that there is a difference between "potentially painful" and "potentially dangerous," but the refs have not figured this out.
In the end, I do not want to see my kid unjured because he gets on the mat with some brute who just wants to crank away and get points on pain....and those kids are out there. The PD needs to stay but be used properly. And with kid wrestling, it is still better to be over cautious.

I agree I also kind of have a problem with the injury time..i think it needs to be shortened up if nothing else far too often i see guys use it as time to catch there breath when really they have no injury..idk jus kind of a lil tangent..

I agree 100%. Stepping out on the mat at the DI level is potentially dangerous, period. The call should be changed to "unacceptably dangerous" or something. If the "victim" can relieve the pressure by giving up the TD or turning to his back, no call should be made. ONLY if he cannot relieve the pressure on his joints, or whatever, should this "unacceptably dangerous" call be made.

I am a bad man, many people call me potentially dangerous!!!

Just outlaw it on half nelsons. Then we're set.

I don't know if you could completely outlaw it, but I'd agree to stretch it

Ben, I am with you this call is so overused that it irritates me i get called for this all the time. I think that it should be used less in high school also. but just out rule it in college.

I agree i mean if you are going to wrestle a good kid then hes not going to be a push over. In order to turn him you have to make it hurt, but most of the time its called PD so yes i do agree.

Ben,

Come on. I understand your position. If I'm you and the few dozen other animals at the level you've achieved. But what about the 1000's of other wrestlers who compete. The sport doesn't need more season or career ending injuries. You can't allow a wrestler to score by tearing someones limbs off. Like previous posters, this is not MMA. Furthermore, if the perception is that officials mis use the PD call, I contend it is to prevent an illegal hold from becoming one. That's just sound, preventive officiating.

I disagree completely. This is really dumb, yes officials do misuse the call and wrestlers take advantage of it too much, but the best wrestlers will still find a way to pin and the rule is in place to not seriously injury a wrestler. We aren't talking about potentially dangerous calls saving wrestlers from bumps and bruises. We are talking about saving them from separated shoulders and blown out knees. It is a sucky call when refs dont' use it properly, but it shouldn't be abolished. Alot like the stalling call, refs don't use well all the time either. Like when wrestlers are fighting for position on their feet but neither can set up a shot. Or when a wrestler has legs in and is working for a turn but the bottom guy is just laying there. The officials usually make a bad call there but how aweful would things get without a stalling rule?

I disagree. What if some "Joker " took out your knee or elbow because he know he could never win. So he gets the injury DQ ,the big points, & Wise Guy said maybe you. You were the funk I have to say.....it could have been a terrible lose for the sport.

Theres a difference between potentially dangerous, and an illegal move like an armbar. Wresting is potentially dangerous. I think the should just let the kids wrestle, and don't stop the match because a kid looks uncomfortable. Officials need to lighten up on this call, but I don't think it should be totally abolished.

I think the refs should be more educated on the PD call. There is a time and a place for the PD call. I have to agree with Coach Trim, wrestling is not MMA but it is a tough sport. If you have legs in and are running a power half and I am not going over and you are ripping my shoulder out of socket I think you it is PD. I am not going over because I am mentally strong enough to not go over. I think you have to look at it from both sides. Wrestling is not MMA.

I'll tell you the PD call that really pisses me off. You work your butt off to get in on a takedown and the guys with rubber knees let their ankle get turned outside the knee to get the PD and stop the takedown. Watch how many times you'll see this at NCAA's. My guess would be well over 50. That's one hundred points that are stopped by an official because the opposing wrestler is WILLING to put himself in a dangerous situation to stop the points. If a wrestler gets put in a PD situation that's fine let's protect the wrestler, but when HE PUTS HIMSELF in the situation (repeatedly) some other course of action needs to be taken.

No. Potentially dangerous keeps wrestling wrestling and not Brazillian Ju-jitsu or MMA. PD is already called at a way higher level than it is in high-school. I love MMA, but its MMA. Wrestling is wrestling and should stay that way. Outlawing the PD rule brings submisson wrestling into effect. I also don't want to see thugs taking out the top guys like a Metcalf or maybe an Askren with a knee bar or other moves that already sneak themselves into wrestling (Nick "the choke" Simmons (of whom I'm a fan but lets face it)). You're just wrong on this one.

Okay here's more. If I know there's no PD call and a guy takes a shot but can't finish, I know I can possibly end the match by yanking his knee sideways. So nowadays, when the ref stops it, is it his fault for over using the PD call or is it my fault for using a cheap move instead of sprawling like I should? I know you love the pin and the calls must frustrate the crap out of you, but deal with it. I'm sure you've put up with worse. What about stalling? I hate that, but I have to admit that the way the coach from oregon looks at things is a valid point of view, even if I hate it. He thinks you should be able to wrestle backing up. Maybe that's over simplified, but my point is still valid. So what do you think Ben? Still sure it's such a great idea? If it accomplishes what you want, it'd be great, but what if some unintended consequences came along later? How would we deal with guys who pushed those situations to the other extreme. Would the ref still penalize them, but with unsportsman like conduct?

I agree with most of what you were saying. I was almost totally with you until I started pondering something you said. You said, "Don't you think it is time we stopped protecting grown men from each other?" My first reaction is, "Of course!" But when I think about the guys out there on the mat, I have to stop myself. There are peole out there who would disable someone to win. So the rule is necessary even if it isn't convenient. Wrestling is about showing total dominance without crippling your opponent. We just have to put up with the sissies and maybe show some contempt for the way our society is turning out people who would rather hide behind a ref than man up.

If you really want a worthwhile subject to talk about, Here is one. What did eliminating the 118 weight class have to do with keeping wrestlers from cutting weight? They need to put the weight class back in and have mat side weigh-ins. There are a lot of talented wrestlers in wrong weight class or sitting on the sidelines.

Changing the rules of wrestling is not going to eliminate referees having to make a close/tough call. This sport is about doing your best and taking responsiblity for the outcome. Sometimes there is not a right or wrong call, but the referee has to make a call and deal with the complaints later. Referees deserve more credit.

good call i cant count the number of times kids have tried to save themselves with this.

Wrestling is a great Sport! I feel that too many people have lost sight of what this sport is really about. It builds, character, respect, and above all self confidence. The sport of wrestling was not created for some guy to be a National Champion. Wrestling has made Men out of Boys, Men out of 'trouble makers', Men out of 'drop outs' and Men out of many others. I went to watch a college match the other day, it was so boring I could barely stand it. These guys are so evenly matched, we already know that whoever makes the least amount of mistakes wins. Now you want to throw in the 'no holds barred idea'? Wrestlers would do even less in a match not to risk a career ending injury. If you are lucky enough to be a HS wrestler from one of the Top 10 wrestling states in the Nation, you may be all for this idea. But those of us who are from one of the other 40 states may think differently. Wrestlers from these lower ranking states need time in College to adapt to the competition. Many guys from the lower level states evolve into National Champions. But, they would never have a chance if Potentially Dagerous holds were not enforced because they would suffer a career ending injury in the first year. Oh, by the way..... there is already a sport like that, it is called the Ultimate Fighting Challenge on FX. And, as we all know, wrestlers do Great on there!

Yea outlaw the PD call is a great idea. I mean, what is an official supposed to call that 1% you say it's called right? Get his shoulder ripped out of socket? The defensive wrestler doesn't have to give up position to the offensive wrestler. What should the call be on a calf slicer when the bottom wrestler bellies out and the top wrestler keeps working it?

I don't know about college because I honestly don't watch enough matches, but being an official at the Bantam-High School level, I feel I use PD only when I feel it is absolutely necessary or where the rule book states that I should. An officials job is to keep both participants safe first and foremost and the PD call helps him do that.

Dude! Even in high school, kids just let you get an arm bar and stall til they get the PD. It really should be outlawed in college. If somebody lets you get in a half so deep you can get hurt, you deserve to get turned.

I agree with Askren!!! I probably watch more wrestling (high school and college) than anyone that has posted a comment on this topic. Stop the cry baby stuff! I see more refs stop a match on a judgment call for PD than any other bad call. I also believe the D1 or high school ref shoulf be more vocal instead of make this stupid call. Have your daughters join the cheering squad and cheer on the basketball team.

For crying out loud people of course its a good rule. we are not animals are we. It's not as simple as choosing to not go to your back. We are talking about a situation that could potentialy injure a wrestler. Not talking about being a man. Why not take the TKO out of boxing as well.

I would have to disagree with eliminating PD calls, but do agree that it's getting over used. I don't want to see any kids getting a limb ripped off, especially if it can be easily prevented. If there is a wrestler abusing the rule, it should be called stalling, and eventually will give up points. If you have a legal bar arm and someone crys, you should be rewarded at least two back points. I agree that you have a choice to roll to you back in that situation. As for the kid that's on his back, crying like his mommy just spanked him....Just call the fall. Don't reward the kid for getting turned to his back, and being a sissy.

D1 Ref

Like I said before, the people on this forum are not going to be the ones standing over and injured wrestler...we (the officials) are. And when angry parents, coaches and wrestlers start in on you, heaping anger and blame and potential lawsuits...these cowards will join the flock and blame the official. And will they pony up money to help with your lawsuit because you made the sport exciting?..Doubtful.
What people don't realize is that if you eliminate PD...its gone! If a neck is bent at a 90 degree angle in a legal arm bar.. WE WOULD HAVE TO LET IT CONTINUE!
It is better to stop 10 matches than let 1 kid be needlessly injured.

I hate the token stalling call on a kid that is winning a 3-2, 1-0 match and has not changed the way he has wrestled the whole match. If you want to talk about over reffing, that is it to a tee.

The first thing I thought of here was the Paulson/Henning match in the finals a couple of years back. I'm glad to see others mention it here too. The worst screw job in recent finals history; certainly worse than Churella/Hendricks. I'm not sure I'd get rid of it entirely though since there are those rare situations where a guy gets trapped in something. I do think it's got to be more like the tap out in submission wrestling: if you need a PD to get out of a legal hold you give up points.

My thoughts, the PD is more important in College than in HS. But both are important to stay for diffrent rerasons. In HS kids are not as much in control of the action, they can accidently hurt themselves or their opponent. In college, they are definatly more in control of the action. Thereefore they are very capable of hurting their opponent. For me personally, I warn the wrestlers, I continually talk to them. "Keep that legal" "keep that arm right there" "stay on the chin" things like that, preventive officiating so I dont have to call PD and I can let the action continue because I do not want to stop the match. I do know this though, if a kid gets seriously hurt on my mat, I take that home with me. I take my job seriously and work to protect both wrestlers as best as possible without getting in the way or disrupting the flow of the match. Most officials I know feel the same way. Also, there are so many situations that are PD these days. Take for example this new funk wrestling of the past few years. The balance of us holding our calls, knowing when to award control and when to call PD is a very fine line.

Also to all the haters out there, find somewhere else to post your imature comments. This is not the place or the site for that crap. These guys at FLO are providing a wonderful service for our wrestling family, respect them and their site.

although you sound like quite a doooosh bag, i agree. i've lost matches because of that rule.

that is one of the dumbest things i have read on here. this blog sucks

I agree... however sometimes it is essentially necessary

Ref Div. I...

Thanks for your input and putting yourself out there like this. Again, I believe your argument has a huge hole in it. If I may play devil's advocate: Under current rules, a kid can put himself in bad position and the official can save him, rightfully or unrightfully.
Let's say for sake of argument: PD is removed from Division I wrestling, with a few exceptions. I believe you will have the same amount of injuries as now and you will have more pins. Firstly, everyone will know that the official cannot save you. Therefore, it would be your responsibility to stay out of positions with a potentially dangerous scenario. Knowing this before hand is all the difference. I separated my shoulder my soph. year and finished the season. I had to keep myself out of positions that put greater wear and tear on the injury. I became a better wrestler because of the injury. It is the classic case of "why as a child did you not drink drano from under the sink? because every time you reached for it your parents tanned your bottom." Pain became associated with "under the sink". I believe the same thing would happen if PD was removed, with a few exceptions, from Division I wrestling. The only exception I do see is the "knee lock" scenario mentioned by Herbert.
PD should REMAIN at the high school level. The differences in levels is too great at this age.
Thanks for the debate.

Hey D1 ref...I think(could be wrong) that Ben is implying that wrestling is life and that instict is what seperates the men from the boys. It's social darwinism at it's best.

Now, i do think that refs sit there and wait for a hold to become potentially dangerous when they should be giving verbal prompts to the wrestlers that way they can make the appropriate adjustments when administring a hold.
I think it is a double edge sword, you get rid of it you'll have problems, you keep it and it limits the true grit of the sport.

in NJ you can get 4 points if the kids on his back and screams out...so long as the ref feels it wasnt pd tho...i got my shoulder ripped out of socket and tore my rotator cuff from being stepped over in a wizzer... i gave up some backs and it cost me my season but at least i didnt scream out like a

Wow, my response has brough out some emotion. Thats a good thing, positive debate is always a benifit to someone. Think of it this way, how about the not so tough kid that is stuck on bottom. Offensive wrestler has a bar arm cranked all the way up. Kid on the bottom is stuck and can not give in due to the angle of the offensive wrestler. We dont stop it, kids shoulder rips. Pain forever. OR.....take it a step higher. Kid has a head lock on his opponent and situation looks bad for the bottom guy. IF you take away the PD, and we can not stop the match to protect him, offensive wrestler throws kid and he lands on his neck and it snaps. Paralized for rest of his life and all because we can not stop the match because PD was taken out of the rule book. Is it worth it now? As said, wrestling is a VERY importing building block in out lives, expecially at this level of the game. The commitment we all put in is well above and beyond the norm. BUT wrestling is just that, life goes on after your eligability ends. It might be hard for you to see that now, but give it 10 years, you will understand more then. Take it from the old dudes that have been in your shoes years ago.

I believe that potentially dangerous calls should cost you. In a pinng combination they should award you 3 points if they have to stop the match, just my thought

Potential Dangerous should stay. We need to find ways to score with out causing permaneant injury to the other wrestler. I thank God Wrestling is not MMa.

Nick

My comment is that the big problem I see is with the arm bar behind the back.
I see to many wrestlers without proper technique trying to do this move where the arm goes beyond 90 degrees or right angle. Kids need to be taught the proper technique by coaches to turn an opponent without a potential dangerous situation occurring. Coaches need to get better technique to their kids.
Wrestling is one of the few sports where good coaching is essential for success.

Good luck Ben

I think Cary Kolat made a living on this topic with those quadruple jointed knees.

How do you know that "tough kid on the bottom...will have to put on a suit and go to work..."? What if he becomes a garbage man or a street sweeper and wears jeans or those green clothy pants to work? I mean, not every tough guy on the bottom in this sport should be assumed that he will be working on Wall Street in an Armani suit someday.

I do think the PD is way overused when people are running a bar or half from the top...

As someone who is unaturally flexible I rarely had to worry about getting turned with moves like this in highschool because I could tolerate the pain until my joint bent to the point where it looked bad and the ref stopped it. It was good for me but I think that it is bad for the sport. If you get put in that position and arent strong enough to fight out of it/endure then you should go to your back, plain and simple.
I do think there definitely need to be PD calls for scrambles where someones knee is getting bent the wrong way though. I've seen way too many injuries from refs not stopping the action in time in that kind of scenario.

I agree ben this happens to me a bunch when i am on top running a wing, the only time a do how ever agree whit this is is usual from natural when a knee starts to get bent the wrong way, this pd call has saved a ton's of acl's and knees but i know exactly what you are talking about when all the wrestler has to do to stop the pain is go to his back i am all for that.

To D1 ref I am glad you called me out on my relative inexperience. But the formula is very simple, in life there are actions and consequences. If the man in the suit values his shoulder then he will roll over. So in the end he decides what takes priority, wrestling or life. It is a simple decision for a man to make and I dont think you should have to make that decision for him.

Mr Buffet,
I too have the pain your talking about. So I understand where your coming from. But as officials, our #1 priority is to protect the wrestlers, that means even protect them from themselves. PD will never be removed from the rule book, you can count on that.

I AGREE
MY TEAMATE IS DOUBLE JOINTED LOL PORB TRIPLE AND EVERYTIM A GUY GETS A DEEP HALF THE REF STOPS IT. BUT SERIOUS MY TEAMATE NEVER GETS PINNED. I CANT EXPLAIN IT BUT HIS ARM JUST GOES OVER HIS HEAD AND THERE IT STAY LOL

To Redux:

I agree -- there are a fair share of "jock sniffers" here! If Ben doesn't agree with me, so be it -- I stand by my belief that we need to get our guys wrestling freestyle and/or Greco WAY earlier. Doing what we're currently doing is kind of like asking a really great college outfielder to play shortstop for the Yankees -- good luck with that!
Here's my suggestion --change the college game to freestyle. If you do, every kid will train freestyle in youth programs and HS and we'll get very competitive very quickly. Stalling basically goes away. Fleeing the mat costs you a point on a push out, etc, etc. Hell, we're inching that way anyway with 3 minute first period, choice of neutral position, legal freestyle start on top, etc. -- let's make the full leap.
Alternative suggestion (much harder to implement) -- lobby to make collegiate style an Olympic sport. We'd be much tougher to beat if we were wrestling the style we started wrestling from the first time we stepped on a mat.

I agree that the PD call is overused. If it were reviewed and called ONLY at the proper times it would be great. I don't agree with an immediate removal, but a review would be appreciated. I think it has contributed to the lack of pinning in college wrestling, no doubt.

D1 Ref...your hypothesis, while well meant, has a huge hole in it. It is the choice of the bottom wrestler to get his shoulder ripped off OR go to his back...HIS CHOICE. Acknowledging that FACT, you are now left with an official who takes the choice out of his hands. Are you saying the person on bottom is not capable of making that decision?? For if you are, then we have a whole new barrel full of things to talk about.

I agree, as a former Div. I wrestler, that the pain I experience everyday in my knees, etc. sucks, especially when a cold front is coming in, but it was MY choice to wrestle at the level I did. I don't know of a single person who wrestled Div. I that does not have an injury or had an injury that does not irk them to some point in later years. The question is: Is the pain we all experience now, was it worth it? For me it was, for some it wasn't. That's a personal choice, but kids need to know it is a choice they will need to make if they seek to compete at the highest levels of this sport.

For me the WORST call in College Wrestling is the lack of STALLING CALLS. The worst round at the NCAA's is the finals, and why, because the officials refuse to call stalling and force the two finalists to actually wrestle for the Championship. Sitting in my seat, I can hear TV channels being changed around the country, while I watch, dozing, the non-exciting 2-1 match from 141lers. who should know better!

askren, i think this is a great idea home skillet. i've seen a ton of kids scream when they're going to their back for no reason other than to stop the move. askrenbro, like urself i too am a funk wrestler, tho obviously not as good. funky doods get into all kinds of wackass positions were they can easily score from, but get called for pd.

as for humphrey's throw against lou"the alaskan assasin"ruggirello, it was clearly an illegeal slam. this isnt freestyle, u can't soup kids straight over ur head and get away with it, ya dig??

NJ Coach - Thanks for your thoughtful response. I just think that if Ben has a subtle argument to make about US wrestling then he should step up and make it. For someone of his noteriety (well deserved) to say things like stop protecting grown men from each other is irresponsible. What's even more disturbing are the "yes men" with their heads so far up Ben's Askren (sorry couldn't resist) that they can't think reasonably for themselves.

Mr. Askren, you are showing your inexperice in life here with this position on this topic. Wrestling is not the top of the world, its a building block for lifes challenges. Someday that tough kid on bottom, who won't let you turn him will have to put a suit on and go to work. If we (officials) would allow you to "rip" his shoulder off and that day when he is at work to sign a document or open a drawer has to do so in pain, is it worth it in the end? No way. As said, wrestling is a major building block in life. We as wrestlers are tougher in life than most this will help us in our ever day struggles. Having pain for the rest of your life would not be worth it. Hence the reason for the PD calls.

Best of luck friend.

I am with you Benjamin! 20+ years ago when I was a high school senior and you were still just a little Ben, I was "cheated" out of my bid to get to the state tournament because my opponent (the JERK!!!) kept screaming every time I ran a SIMPLE bar arm on him drawing numerous stoppages and medical timeouts. The ref kept telling me that he was calling it "potentially" dangerous although it was clearly not dangerous but was enough to prevent me from scoring much needed backpoints and cost me my one and only shot at competing at the state tournament. I lost the match by one point which, to this day more than 2½ decades later, I still feel cheated and cannot even think about it without wanting to put my fist through a wall or through that referee's head. And to add absolute insult to injury, that jerk went on to win the state title by pulling that same garbage in the finals. But it's over and I have to live (and die) with it. OK, I will calm down now...and back to delivering my weekly sermons at the church.

AH! The old "We should do away with...." scenario.

Problem is, where are the people on this forum going to be when the assembled players are standing over a wrestler with a shoulder separation or, heaven forbid, a spinal injury.
Will they raise their hands and tell the kids family "Its okay, we told the ref to allow potential dangerous holds because the safety concerns were making the sport too boring"?....I doubt it.
More likely, they will join in on the chorus of "I don't know why the ref didn't stop it!?"
Why don't we continue to let the men wearing stripes decide what is dangerous and what isn't! The safety record of the sport reflects the fact that refs know whatr they are doing.
Unless you wear stripes yourself, you do not know the responsibilty that comes with it.

I agree for example this weeks takedown of the week was called for potentially dangerous, but is was a nasty throw and the northwestern kid was going to get pinned...i'm down for it in high school, but no more in COLLEGE!!!

I have a saying for this. everytime i see it, it makes me insane so i like to give the ref a lil sarcasm and sayy oo good call " potential backpoints"

I understand what you are saying Ben but, shouldn't officials try to prevent injuries if a bad situation arises? I can see when someone is on their back and unless he getting his nuts grab, or has an illegal hold he should be called pinned no questions asked.

To "Disagree redux":

I think you need to re-read my post and understand that Ben purposely posed a provacative proposition -- how's that for alliteration! Yes, it was an illegal throw (Salto/Suplay). Flo, by the way, called it a slam too. Net result is/was the same -- Ruggerello was awarded a point. For NCAA wrestling it was the right call as were the PD calls in the same match.
BUT, I agree with what I think Ben may really be getting at. If the USA wants to dominate on the international level we need to get rules more closely aligned with international rules. IF that WAS a FS or Greco match (I understand it wasn't -- again, we're simply having a debate), it WOULD HAVE been amplitude 5+ probably a pin. That's what I said. I too have a son that wrestles and would not want to see him (or any of the boys I coach) tear an ACL or have a neck injury so I appreciate that the ref's primary responsibility is to protect the wrestlers.
But I think Ben is onto something == many kids are "working" the PD game and doing "funk" knowing that even if they don't score, they'll get a stalemate or a PD call. And it just doesn't work that way at the next level.
A good example is the "Dirty McNasty" scramble of the week with Leen and Chandler. While exciting as hell (despite the debatable TD call), and smart given the current NCAA rules, both wrestlers exposed their backs numerous times. All our wrestlers are learning and drilling funk rolls, etc. and they will need to "unlearn" all that and learn things like gut wrenches to be successful at the next level. That's really hard to do. I think Ben's collegiate career, while awesome, put him at a competitive disadvantage internationally given the rapid transition timetable. Henry Cejudo, by contrast, went straight from HS to the OTC. He never learned bad habits. Please don't misunderstand me to mean that kids should not go to college! Rather, wouldn't it be great if our youth and collegiate wrestling was more aligned with FS? Rules could be adjusted at younger levels to protect kids -- i.e. salto/samba throws could still be illegal. Thoughts?

agree totally on this one ben, but another is the fleeing the mat. called wrong almost all the time. there is a line there and i say if you can get to it then get to it. not that i want people running toward it everytime they get in trouble but the refs just cant get it right. they dont realize that alot of the time the wrestler would be doing the same thing in the middle of the mat.

I think it is reasonable to give the ref the discretion to stop action. With that said if a hold or pinning combination is legal action should continue. Most of the injuries I have witnessed happen in a split second and could not have be prevented by the referee. Our sport is not for the faint of heart, after all stepping onto the mat with BA is potentially dangerous.

Ben, I am so with you on this one. Wrestling in some ways have become an elitist sport with all these rules, that make it so dang boring. Look at the growth of MMA, it's partly because of the excitement.
I think with making wrestling more exciting, and less of the rules (not saying eliminate all rules) then maybe we could have a larger following.
With the best sport in the world (I am biased), we should be filling gyms like Duke does for basketball.

Great Points Ben.
Josh

I think that in the past four years this has become more of an emphasis for the refs. Meaning that they are looking to call it constantly. For instance I was watching a high school and the kid was using a cradle to get a pin. Instead of looking for the pin the ref was looking to see if there was a choke. Its like come on look for the fall for crying out loud, and use some common sense. It also has a lot to do with officials wanting to be a factor in the match. Not saying this is true for all. But a lot of officials subconsciously or not feel they need have some kind of impact on a match.

I couldn't agree with you more Mr. Askren. I'm so sick of watching wrestling matches where someone is about to be turned to their back for potential backpoints or to even be pinned and they yell out a scream and the ref stops the action.
I'm sick of seeing wrestlers get screwed out of scoring opportunities because of these reasons. No wonder so many collegiate wrestlers stick to scoring most of their points off of takedowns. The only way you're able to score points on top is with tilts. You try a powerhalf or a guillotine they guy screams out as you're 1/8 of a way from from getting some back points and the ref stops the action.
I personally feel that if you're being turned and the guy yells out in pain that it should be an automatic 4 back points, no ifs ands or buts.

i think potentially dangerous should only be used in non-pinning holds. For example in your in a scramble and your knee gets in a funky position then a PD may be called. but if someone is cranking on your neck with a power half then no PD should be called.

ben i got your back, i agree totally!!

personally I think the worst call is the no call like a refree no calling the pin, takedown or an escape especially when its close to the end of the period that is the worst call because that cost wrestlers and teams points

ridicolous

what are your priorities? i would rather have the wrong wrestler win a match then have either wrestler be seriously injured. enough of our athletes (think schlatter) already have problems due to injuries even with the PD.

you are for the most part right Ben, i dont think they should eliminate it but they should cut back on it for sure especially in college. Sometimes I think you need it. It just really bothers me when a match is interrupted by an overprotective ref, it really can change the course of a match

Thank goodness you meatheads aren't running our sport. I think we should allow eye gouging and if they don't turn over rip their eyes out! That sound good? The rules are designed to protect both wrestlers. If you can't win within the rules then go to the ultimate fighting and leave amateur wrestling alone!

your gayy!!!

I'm with you.

I think this is a good idea, but I am a D1 college wrestler and I know that I already try to hurt people and it gets stopped because of PD. So, if it wasn't there I would have definitely broken a lot bones and torn many legimates and tendons on opponents. I think for the safety of wrestlers, the PD call should stay because of wrestlers like myself.

Deffently!

I agree with you totally, except for the fact that alot of times at any level, one of the wrestlers got in a shot and wrenches the knee pretty bad. Those kind of injuries can end athletes careers.

no school tomorrow, sorry for the spelling

f-it if a guy puts my hand on my back i run it to my head on purpose to get the restart. it is the simplest thing ever, if a kid cant turn over because the position wont allow it then PD but i agreeeeee 99% of the time the kid thinks he is being tough by fighting it and acting hurt (most time in a half the kid has a chance to turn and get pinned, you don't have to fight it) as a former pinner myself and a coach i saw yes! P.S. Ben, this weekend and i need a place for my wife and i 2 stay.

Change PD to tap out!!!! 3 points for a TO! Take the ref right out of the match.

Not I!!!

I am all for the outlawing of the PD call when it comes to a pinning combination. However, there are certain times during a match like when a guy is on a low single and u can almost see the other guys knee popping out of the skin that a PD cal is almost necessary to prevent a seasoning ending injury that would very well need surgery to fix. So i believe if the one guy is just gettign cranked on top they should definitely let it go and if his shoulder ripps out oh well he didnt have to stay in that position, but in certain areas and scrambles the PD call is very much needed to prevent any unnecessary season ending injuries. But if the wrestling abuses the PD calls to stop from getting takendown i firmly believe he should be penalized a point or two.

im not sure i mean theres a difference between getting hurt and being a brat....i see people tap out all the time because they cant breathe....but i dont want to see anyone get paralized.....also alot of inexpeierenced wrestlers dont know what they are doing and they could get hurt

ben:

at the hofstra match they stopped ruggerilio from turning the ohio st 133lb wrestler
with potentially dangerous. i think that stoppage changed the momentum and flow
of the match.

what about the wrestlers, that "tap" and actually request the call.................see my Picture.....I agree 100%, if you dont want to be choked or have your arms ripped off, then 1. dont get put in that position 2. Go to sleep 3. Get your labrum/rotator cup ripped to pieces 3. take your medicine

TOTALLY AGREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

agree

Totally With You

i agree with ryanjohara, stall calls are too biased

I agree in a way. Potentially dangerous, like stalling, tends to be one of the worst calls because of its subjective nature.

Also let me add that as an official and dad of 4 wrestlers, I'd hate to gamble my son's ACL or elbow on the chance that some kid might get a takedown or pin. Let's keep things in perspective here. NJCoach, that was not a slam called. It was an illegal move call. That was not freestyle or greco. Stop the weird nonsense about that call. Its ridiculous. That Rugg was fine is immaterial. Does a kid have to end up paralyzed for things to be outlawed? The shame of it is that that probably happened to get the rule in the books to start with.

I think you are right about the fact that some wrestlers know how to put themselves in PD situation but 99% of the time? I'd say only 5-10%. Most action happens too fast for someone to think OK let me get in a PD situation here. If turning holds are used correctly (e.g.turning the whole body and not just the arm when running a half) then it would not be an issue. Just because a guy is a rugged 20 year old who has been wrestling since he was 4 does not negate the fact that he is still someone kid and loved one. What official could sit back in good conscience and ignore a limb going against its natural movement and do nothing? Regardless of who put it there. I think that too many of you guys look to blame officials for everything that happens on the mat. Obviously you (Ben) have been successful in imposing your will on many opponents (Olympics not withstanding) so more wrestlers need to be better will imposer and not ref/rule bashers. I call B.S and for a ban against whiny wrestlers.

There would be a lot of wrestlers that would get taken down too. and not bend their knee to odd agles

I've never really given PD much thought, though I still think it does more good than harm. Something to think about though...

Fleeing the mat is the worst call in wrestling - since it's so rarely called even though someone "flees" at least once a match. Either call it all the time or never call it, calling it once every 10-15 matches is silly...

Ben,

Agree that kids purposely put themselves into PD again and again to stop takedowns, escapes/reversals, and most of all ... pins. Makes me sick. I don't want to see anyone get hurst, but It's simply called way too often b/c kids know how to put themselves into PD positions. Another shame? Check out the throw Reece Humphrey of OSU hit on Ruggierello that was called for a slam. Ruggierello was fine and it would have been at least big amplitudee points in FS or Greco and probable a pin. That sucked!

Not too sure if I agree totally; because there are def some positions that need to be stopped (esp in high school, when two wrestlers dont know rules/proper tech) and it only takes one bad move to end a good college career. Ben, your have been very fortunate to be very dominate throughout your career, but most guys aren't so lucky. As an offical and a graduated college wrestler, its a rule for protection. HOWEVER... for example: when your in on a head-inside-single and your opponent turns to ur ankles and puts himself in a vulnerable position with his knees, YES... let the action continue because one could make a case of: A) stalling B) him putting himself in a stale-mate position C) or exactly what it is, PD!!! by puttin himself there. there is def some strategy in that.... I vote to make those types of situation STALLING!

With that... Stalling is on that level. It was explained to me that Stalling is at the Ref's dissgretion. It is an opinnon call. And because it is an opinnion call, it is inconsistant (sp). The word stalling is not even defined. What a bad rule! It is needed, but needed to be defined first!

"Agreed." YES!!! I am so glad there is someone out there who is just as pissed about that call as I am. Even if Paulson was in a potentially dangerous it took about five or six seconds for the ref to call it. Henning should have been given back points with or without the call. It makes me sick. That's the kind of pull Sanderson has over officials I guess.

The year Ben won his 2nd title, Craig Henning lost in the finals because a PD was called when Paulson got into some weird position where Henning could've received back points.

With you, even though this would have made me even more average in college! Guess I am glad Ben Askren is on our side!