113 LBS HIGH SCHOOL RANKINGS

thanks for that info, Calot

Akins beat Gromacki 2-1 and Cullen 4-2 at NWCA Scholastic Duals yesterday

meluv - In the real world of wrestling you are correct. The common opponent argument is a fallacy. There are way too many variables which is one of the things which make our sport so great. In the world of rankings, sometimes that's all you have to go on. National championships are an absolute. It goes back to who actually shows up gets the consideration. You can't do any better than first place and have no control over who else does or doesn't show up.

Jason Boss-I don't think you can use common opponents to determine who is a half a notch above who. Is it safe to assume that your half a notch comment is referring to regular decision victories? The names mentioned above, getting major decision, tf or pin would be rare for sure.I think what's even a more important factor is how does the top 5 finish at national events with other national ranked wrestlers, HMs or an extremely solid bracket compete compared to the next group. Russell wins NHSCA with Fleetwood in the bracket. Valencia wins Ironman with Assad, Hayes, Fuentes, Singh, Tucker and etc in the bracket. Fleetwood wins Escape the Rock with Fuentes and Lizak in the bracket.

Jason Boss-I don't think you can use common opponents to determine who is a half a notch above who. Is it safe to assume that your half a notch comment is referring to regular decision victories? The names mentioned above, getting major decision, tf or pin would be rare for sure.I think what's even a more important factor is how does the top 5 finish at national events with other national ranked wrestlers, HMs or an extremely solid bracket compete compared to the next group. Russell wins NHSCA with Fleetwood in the bracket. Valencia wins Ironman with Assad, Hayes, Fuentes, Singh, Tucker and etc in the bracket. Fleetwood wins Escape the Rock with Fuentes and Lizak in the bracket.

Jason Boss-I don't think you can use common opponents to determine who is a half a notch above who. Is it safe to assume that your half a notch comment is referring to regular decision victories? The names mentioned above, getting major decision, tf or pin would be rare for sure.I think what's even a more important factor is how does the top 5 finish at national events with other national ranked wrestlers, HMs or an extremely solid bracket compete compared to the next group. Russell wins NHSCA with Fleetwood in the bracket. Valencia wins Ironman with Assad, Hayes, Fuentes, Singh, Tucker and etc in the bracket. Fleetwood wins Escape the Rock with Fuentes and Lizak in the bracket.

Jason Boss-I don't think you can use common opponents to determine who is a half a notch above who. Is it safe to assume that your half a notch comment is referring to regular decision victories? The names mentioned above, getting major decision, tf or pin would be rare for sure.I think what's even a more important factor is how does the top 5 finish at national events with other national ranked wrestlers, HMs or an extremely solid bracket compete compared to the next group. Russell wins NHSCA with Fleetwood in the bracket. Valencia wins Ironman with Assad, Hayes, Fuentes, Singh, Tucker and etc in the bracket. Fleetwood wins Escape the Rock with Fuentes and Lizak in the bracket.

Jason Boss-I don't think you can use common opponents to determine who is a half a notch above who. Is it safe to assume that your half a notch comment is referring to regular decision victories? The names mentioned above, getting major decision, tf or pin would be rare for sure.I think what's even a more important factor is how does the top 5 finish at national events with other national ranked wrestlers, HMs or an extremely solid bracket compete compared to the next group. Russell wins NHSCA with Fleetwood in the bracket. Valencia wins Ironman with Assad, Hayes, Fuentes, Singh, Tucker and etc in the bracket. Fleetwood wins Escape the Rock with Fuentes and Lizak in the bracket.

Jason Boss-I don't think you can use common opponents to determine who is a half a notch above who. Is it safe to assume that your "half a notch" comment is referring to regular decision victories? The names mentioned above, getting major decision, tf or pin would be rare for sure.I think what's even a more important factor is how does the top 5 finish at national events with other national ranked wrestlers, HMs or an extremely solid bracket compete compared to the next group. Russell wins NHSCA with Fleetwood in the bracket. Valencia wins Ironman with Assad, Hayes, Fuentes, Singh, Tucker (who was previously ranked) and etc in the bracket. Fleetwood wins Escape the Rock with Fuentes and Lizak in the bracket.

Jason Boss-I don't think you can use common opponents to determine who is a half a notch above who. Is it safe to assume that your half a notch comment is referring to regular decision victories? The names mentioned above, getting major decision, tf or pin would be rare for sure.I think what's even a more important factor is how does the top 5 finish at national events with other national ranked wrestlers, HMs or an extremely solid bracket compete compared to the next group. Russell wins NHSCA with Fleetwood in the bracket. Valencia wins Ironman with Assad, Hayes, Fuentes, Singh, Tucker and etc in the bracket. Fleetwood wins Escape the Rock with Fuentes and Lizak in the bracket.

Jason Boss-I don't think you can use common opponents to determine who is a half a notch above who. Is it safe to assume that your "half a notch" comment is referring to regular decision victories? The names mentioned above, getting major decision, tf or pin would be rare for sure.I think what's even a more important factor is how does the top 5 finish at national events with other national ranked wrestlers, HMs or an extremely solid bracket compete compared to the next group. Russell wins NHSCA with Fleetwood in the bracket. Valencia wins Ironman with Assad, Hayes, Fuentes, Singh, Tucker (who was previously ranked) and etc in the bracket. Fleetwood wins Escape the Rock with Fuentes and Lizak in the bracket.

Jason Boss-I don't think you can use common opponents to determine who is a half a notch above who. Is it safe to assume that your "half a notch" comment is referring to regular decision victories? The names mentioned above, getting major decision, tf or pin would be rare for sure.I think what's even a more important factor is how does the top 5 finish at national events with other national ranked wrestlers, HMs or an extremely solid bracket compete compared to the next group. Russell wins NHSCA with Fleetwood in the bracket. Valencia wins Ironman with Assad, Hayes, Fuentes, Singh, Tucker (who was previously ranked) & etc in the bracket. Fleetwood wins Escape the Rock with Fuentes and Lizak in the bracket.

Thanks! The other thing to take into account as you move past the top 5 is how the next group has matched up against the top dogs. Hayes has a 10-3 win over Jeffries, and the Walsh Ironman bracket shows Valencia and Hayes are probably half a notch above Singh and Fuentes. Conversely Picc and Fleetwood have proven to be into the mix with the top 5 including recent wins.

Willie Saylor-Far enough. Fleetwood was already ranked above Lizak so your point is valid and no dispute on that front. Lazik lost to Evan Fidelibus in January and then Lizak avenged the lose twice in February.

Willie Saylor-Far enough. Fleetwood was already ranked above Lizak so your point is valid and no dispute on that front. Lazik lost to Evan Fidelibus in January 2013 and then Lizak avenged the lose twice in February 2013.

Willie Saylor-Far enough. Fleetwood was already ranked above Lizak so your point is valid and no dispute on that front. Lazik lost to Evan Fidelibus in January and then Lizak avenged the lose twice in February.

Willie Saylor-Far enough. Fleetwood was already ranked above Lizak so your point is valid and no dispute on that front. Lazik lost to Evan Fidelibus in January 2013 and then Lizak avenged the lose twice in February 2013.

Willie Saylor-Far enough. Fleetwood was already ranked above Lizak so your point is valid and no dispute on that front. Lazik lost to Evan Fidelibus in January 2013 and then Lizak avenged the lose 2x in February 2013.

keep in mind, lizak lost at least twice this year (off the top of my head) including one to fleetwood

Jason Boss-great response with valid points. I'm curious though if you think a wrestler should move up the rankings like Piccininni did over the #6-9 ranked wrestlers? I mean, Lizak for example won his 2nd state title in the toughest state in the country. Lizak defeated the current #12 & #14 and the #17 was in the same bracket. #17 was in the same bracket as Piccininni at Flo but they didn't compete against each other. Just curious what yout thoughts are because your comments have substance.

meluv -good observation on your part and default was probably a poor choice of words on my part. To clarify my point and answer both questions, the saying goes that 50% of life is showing up. 5 of the top 7 showed up last weekend and were in the finals. It also takes a body of work to really assess a wrestler. There are too many variables to go on a single match.The body of work also shows how close that top group is to each other. The only body of work he is afforded is at these events. A win over #3 and losses by an eyelash to 1,3, and 5, as well as other recent significant wins puts him rightly in that top group. In Piccininni's case, if the were fellow top 10 wrestlers at a tournament at a given place and time, wild horses couldn't keep him from showing up and wrestling. If one of them showed up at his door at 3 am, he would roll out of bed and into his wrestling shoes. This is what makes it such a pet peeve of mine that the elite NY wrestlers cannot show up and get this opportunity during the season, which far supercedes offseason results.As far as who comes to wrestle in any match or tournament, I feel it's important to keep the frame of mind that it is an opportunity for the wrestlers who want to be a part of it, first and foremost. If some one declines, I don't feel like the reason is any of my business so I never ask. In this context with other criteria being essentially equal, I just tend to give the nod to who is there. I should have phased that differently.

Boss,I agree with most of your comment. with NY traveling limitation, some of NYs best wrestlers can't attend the major in season events but what about pre and post season. Piccininni wanted to wrestle the best competition and attended Flo. Other NY wrestlers attend Super32 looking for the best competition. There are plenty of events that allows not only NY wrestlers to attend but any state wrestlers as well.What I find interesting is your "default" comment. Do you know why Fleetwood didn't attend? There maybe a valid reason he was a no show. So simply jumping someone over another wrestler by default seems odd to me. You are 100% right about splitting hairs between 6 & 7 but what about #7 & #10? I'm pretty sure last weeks #6 through #9 don't think it's splitting hairs.

Beating the dead horse, NY wrestlers do not have permission to wrestle the tournaments during the season that the other state champs go to. If so, all the elite NY wrestlers would be at BOE, Ironman, etc and there would be no questions on it. To find competition that appears on the rankings they have to travel off season at their own expense. Even then there is no guarantee the other wrestlers will show up. You can only beat the guy who steps up and shakes your hand. The Fleetwood - Piccininni match never happened. Fleetwood was scheduled to travel to the Pinning Down Autism Duals but was a scratch the day before. I would argue that Piccininni jumps him by default but the difference between 6 and 7 among guys who never wrestled each other is splitting hairs.

Piccininni's move (up 3) wasnt a subjective thing. he had a good S32 (although he DNP'd) with a win over Valencia.his only two losses have been to Valencia and Russell. His win over Simmons (a bubble kid at 120) was huge in my book. and he also beat PA Champ Phillippi.

Yourkid Isbetterthanmykid,I haven't seen any results that show Piccininni vs Fleetwood match, so I can only assume the match didn't happen. I could care less what state a wrestler is from, I'm all about results only.I think the problem with proud states like NY who feel they aren't getting the respect they deserve is that they don't look at big picture when it comes to results. For example, you mentioned Piccininni defeating a 3rd place state finisher from NJ. Piccininni is a NY State Champ, post results of him beating other state champs, that carries more weight than defeating a 3rd place finisher.Rankings used to be objective and they still are to a point but seem to be leaning more to being subjective. Since you brought up Piccininni, I'll use him as an example. Prior to Flonationals, he was ranked #10 so i'm going to use that as the starting point. He attended Flonationals and didn't beat a ranked wrestler and jumped to #7 or up 3 spots. He did beat a wrestler that Willie previewed as finishing #3 but that wrestler is probably on Willie's HM list. So my question to Yourkid Isbetterthanmykid, how does a westler job 3 spots on the ranking board by being runner-up at Flonationals and not beating a single ranked wreslter? If Piccininni had won the tournament and beat another ranked opponent, then I can see an argument for him moving up 3 spots. I'm thinking that Willie is impressed with Piccininni and feels (subjective) that he's better than the wrestlers Piccininni jumped and therefor moved him up the rankings. Does Piccininni have to beat only state champs and ranked wrestlers to move up, no, but a good start would be to win events like FloNationals.I'm like Willie in the regards that I think Piccininni is a very solid wrestler ad I think he's a tough competitor, so I have the uptmost respect for him and his talent regardless what state his from.

Yourkid Isbetterthanmykid,I haven't seen any results that show Piccininni vs Fleetwood match, so I can only assume the match didn't happen. I could care less what state a wrestler is from, I'm all about results only.I think the problem with proud states like NY who feel they aren't getting the respect they deserve is that they don't look at big picture when it comes to results. For example, you mentioned Piccininni defeating a 3rd place state finisher from NJ. Piccininni is a NY State Champ, post results of him beating other state champs, that carries more weight than defeating a 3rd place finisher.Rankings used to be objective and they still are to a point but seem to be leaning more to being subjective. Since you brought up Piccininni, I'll use him as an example. Prior to Flonationals, he was ranked #10 so i'm going to use that as the starting point. He attended Flonationals and didn't beat a ranked wrestler and jumped to #7 or up 3 spots. He did beat a wrestler that Willie previewed as finishing #3 but that wrestler is probably on Willie's HM list. So my question to Yourkid Isbetterthanmykid, how does a westler job 3 spots on the ranking board by being runner-up at Flonationals and not beating a single ranked wreslter? If Piccininni had won the tournament and beat another ranked opponent, then I can see an argument for him moving up 3 spots. I'm thinking that Willie is impressed with Piccininni and feels (subjective) that he's better than the wrestlers Piccininni jumped and therefor moved him up the rankings. Does Piccininni have to beat only state champs and ranked wrestlers to move up, no, but a good start would be to win events like FloNationals.I'm like Willie in the regards that I think Piccininni is a very solid wrestler and I think he's a tough competitor, so I have the uptmost respect for him and his talent regardless what state his from.

Yourkid Isbetterthanmykid,I haven't seen any results that show Piccininni vs Fleetwood match, so I can only assume the match didn't happen. I could care less what state a wrestler is from, I'm all about results only.I think the problem with proud states like NY who feel they aren't getting the respect they deserve is that they don't look at big picture when it comes to results. For example, you mentioned Piccininni defeating a 3rd place state finisher from NJ. Piccininni is a NY State Champ, post results of him beating other state champs, that carries more weight than defeating a 3rd place finisher.Rankings used to be objective and they still are to a point but seem to be leaning more to being subjective. Since you brought up Piccininni, I'll use him as an example. Prior to Flonationals, he was ranked #10 so i'm going to use that as the starting point. He attended Flonationals and didn't beat a ranked wrestler and jumped to #7 or up 3 spots. He did beat a wrestler that Willie previewed as finishing #3 but that wrestler is probably on Willie's HM list. So my question to Yourkid Isbetterthanmykid, how does a westler job 3 spots on the ranking board by being runner-up at Flonationals and not beating a single ranked wreslter? If Piccininni had won the tournament and beat another ranked opponent, then I can see an argument for him moving up 3 spots. I'm thinking that Willie is impressed with Piccininni and feels (subjective) that he's better than the wrestlers Piccininni jumped and therefor moved him up the rankings. Does Piccininni have to beat only state champs and ranked wrestlers to move up, no, but a good start would be to win events like FloNationals.I'm like Willie in the regards that I think Piccininni is a very solid wrestler ad I think he's a tough competitor, so I have the uptmost respect for him and his talent regardless what state his from.

@Yourkid Isbetterthanmykid,I haven't seen any results that show Piccininni vs Fleetwood match, so I can only assume the match didn't happen. I could care less what state a wrestler is from, I'm all about results only.I think the problem with proud states like NY who feel they aren't getting the respect they deserve is that they don't look at big picture when it comes to results. For example, you mentioned Piccininni defeating a 3rd place state finisher from NJ. Piccininni is a NY State Champ, post results of him beating other state champs, that carries more weight than defeating a 3rd place finisher.Rankings used to be objective and they still are to a point but seem to be leaning more to being subjective. Since you brought up Piccininni, I'll use him as an example. Prior to Flonationals, he was ranked #10 so i'm going to use that as the starting point. He attended Flonationals and didn't beat a ranked wrestler and jumped to #7 or up 3 spots. He did beat a wrestler that Willie previewed as finishing #3 but that wrestler is probably on Willie's HM list. So my question to Yourkid Isbetterthanmykid, how does a westler job 3 spots on the ranking board by being runner-up at Flonationals and not beating a single ranked wreslter? If Piccininni had won the tournament and beat another ranked opponent, then I can see an argument for him moving up 3 spots. I'm thinking that Willie is impressed with Piccininni and feels (subjective) that he's better than the wrestlers Piccininni jumped and therefor moved him up the rankings. Does Piccininni have to beat only state champs and ranked wrestlers to move up, no, but a good start would be to win events like FloNationals.I'm like Willie in the regards that I think Piccininni is a very solid wrestler ad I think he's a tough competitor, so I have the uptmost respect for him and his talent regardless what state his from.

@Yourkid Isbetterthanmykid,I haven't seen any results that show Piccininni vs Fleetwood match, so I can only assume the match didn't happen. I could care less what state a wrestler is from, I'm all about results only.I think the problem with proud states like NY who feel they aren't getting the respect they deserve is that they don't look at the big picture when it comes to results. For example, you mentioned Piccininni defeating a 3rd place state finisher from NJ. Piccininni is a NY State Champ, post results of him beating other state champs, that carries more weight than defeating a 3rd place finisher.Rankings used to be objective and they still are to a point but seem to be leaning more to being subjective. Since you brought up Piccininni, I'll use him as an example. Prior to Flonationals, he was ranked #10 so i'm going to use that as the starting point. He attended Flonationals and didn't beat a ranked wrestler and jumped to #7. He did beat a wrestler that Willie previewed as finishing #3 but that wrestler is probably on Willie's HM list. So my question to Yourkid Isbetterthanmykid, how does a westler job 3 spots on the ranking board by being runner-up at Flonationals and not beating a single ranked wreslter? If Piccininni had won the tournament and beat another ranked opponent, then I can see an argument for him moving up 3 spots. I'm thinking that Willie is impressed with Piccininni and feels (subjective) that he's better than the wrestlers Piccininni jumped and therefor moved him up the rankings. Piccininni didn't move up on results. I think Piccininni is a very solid wrestler and I mean zero disrespect but he just needs more quality wins to convince me that the #7 spot is approiate. Does he have to beat only state champs and ranked wrestlers, no, but winning events like Flonationals would be a good starting point.

meluvwrestling 4 weeks agoDid they end up wrestling eachother and if so, what was the result?Piccininni wound up beating the 3rd place NJ finisher, a good wrestler named Vindici. He won in really convincing fashion, 9 - 0. This assumes that you're willing to be convinced that the NY kid is one of top 113 guys in the country. If you're like most folks who comment around here, you probably think NY high school wrestling falls somewhere between Guam and Alaska.http://www.flowrestling.org/speaker/16838-Nick-Piccininni/video/700699-113-lbs-match-Nick-Piccininni-NY-vs-AJ-Vindici-NJ

Boston's ranking is far from being from 'just one FLO' tournament.he was a state champ as a FR, State runner-up to Micic as a So. Flo Runner-Up in 2011.he was ranked low (11) until this point because of 2 things 1) he was a match from placing at S32 at 120 and 2) he was injured in the summer of 2012, limiting his head-to-head production.he has more than enough national results to justify a higher spot. he just beat piccininni who split matches with Valencia at S32. and he won the bracket at FLO in which Sean Williams (who beat Valencia at state) didn't even place.

I can't wait to hear the explaination on how Boston jumped 8 spots based on a single "FLO" tournament.

rankings updated and adjusted.

Low weights are harder to rank. Most people aren't fully developed below some random weight around 115 lbs. For example: A girl won MA states this year at 106. I don't think a girl could ever be the best wrestler above say 120 lbs. Maybe I'm just ignorant or stupid but I believe what I just wrote.

@Phillip Wimpee51,Boston hasn't proven to be better than 1-9. Just because your a Boston fan doesn't automatically make him better than anyone, he has to prove it on the mat.

Boston hasn't proven to be better than 1-9. Just because your a Boston fan doesn't automatically make him better than anyone, he has to prove it on the mat.

Boston hasn't proven to be better than 1-9. Just because your a Boston fan doesn't automatically make him better than anyone, he has to prove it on the mat.

Boston isn't better than 2-4. I'm assuming Micic didn't wrestle last weekend due to preparation for Fila Jrs this weekend; hard to fault the kid for that.

Gotta tip my hat to whoever does these rankings. Boston was a teeny weeny better than Piccicinni this past weekend and you have them ranked back to back. Impressive!My only criticism is that they should both be further up the list. Perhaps 2 and 3 or 3 and 4?

Why isn't Jarred Ganger (113) from Troy Christan in Ohio not ranked? He has beaten #8 Johnny Jimenez (120) this past summer at fargo 120, #2 Matt Kolodzik (120) last year in district finals at 106 and also #5 Sean Russell at 106 at iron man. He is a State Champion and State Runner up and is a Sopre.

Why isn't Jarred Ganger (113) from Troy Christan in Ohio not ranked? He has beaten #8 Johnny Jimenez (120) this past summer at fargo 120, #2 Matt Kolodzik (120) last year in district finals at 106 and also #5 Sean Russell at 106 at iron man. He is a State Champion and State Runner up and is a Sopre.

Why isn't Jarred Ganger (113) from Troy Christan in Ohio not ranked? He has beaten #8 Johnny Jimenez this past summer at fargo (120), #2 Matt Kolodzik (120) last year in district finals at 106 and also #5 Sean Russell at 106 at iron man. He is a State Champion and State Runner up and is a Sopre.

Why isn't Jarred Ganger (113) from Troy Christan in Ohio not ranked? He has beaten #8 Johnny Jimenez (120) this past summer at fargo 120, #2 Matt Kolodzik (120) last year in district finals at 106 and also #5 Sean Russell at 106 at iron man. He is a State Champion and State Runner up and is a Sopre.

Why isn't Jarred Ganger (113) from Troy Christan in Ohio not ranked? He has beaten #8 Johnny Jimenez this past summer at fargo (120), #2 Matt Kolodzik (120) last year in district finals at 106 and also #5 Sean Russell at 106 at iron man. He is a State Champion and State Runner up and is a Sopre.

Why isn't Jarred Ganger (113) from Troy Christan in Ohio not ranked? He has beaten #8 Johnny Jimenez this past summer at fargo (120), #2 Matt Kolodzik (120) last year in district finals at 106 and also #5 Sean Russell at 106 at iron man. He is a State Champion and State Runner up and is a Sopre.

I'm curious how is Willie going to update the rankings after this past weekend National events. I mean between FloNationals & NHSCA National, they both had weight allowances, Folkstyle Nationals was the only tournament that didn't have weight allowances. For example, 113#(+5#) = 118#, Nathan Boston won the bracket. Akins lost to 2 unranked wrestlers, so does he fall out of the 113# rankings even though it wasn't a true scratch weight event? So does that win count towards 120# or 113# rankings, or does the wins from those two events not count?

Drew Turner took 3rd at Junior Nationals behind Fleetwood and Russell. Is there a possibility of him moving in? I know he took 3rd at state but that was because he bumped up for the team

they haven't updated the rankings because of the NCAA Championships.

fuentes is still only 13 because.....?

fuentes is still only 13 because........?